star495.1. $6 BILLION FOR WEAPONS
that’s what Russia made last year
Author: Alexei Nikolsky
Source: Vedomosti, February 2, 2005, p. A3
[Russia’s arms exports are rising steadily, but the unprecedented revenue is mainly coming from sales of spare parts and maintenance. Experts hope the situation will change within the next few years; otherwise, Russia’s defense enterprises will have to seek new markets.]
<> AN ARMS SALES RECORD: THE LEVEL OF $6 BILLION REACHED
The Russian defense sector set an export record last year: arms sales revenues reached $6 billion. Only in the Soviet era were arms exports greater than this. The current portfolio of orders will suffice to keep exports around the $5 billion mark for the next two years, experts note.
Mikhail Dmitriyev, director of the Federal Military Technology Cooperation Service, reported to President Vladimir Putin yesterday on the achievements of the Russian defense sector. According to Dmitriyev, in 2004 Rosoboronexport brought in $5.1 billion out of a total of $6 billion in arms sales. RSK MiG, the Instrumentation Design Bureau, and the Machine-Building Design Bureau, as well as NPO Mashinostroyeniya, which have independent licenses to export finished systems, earned at least $450 million more. The rest of the revenue was brought in by 14 enterprises which export spare parts, Sukhoi Aviation and the Salyut Plant of Moscow being the largest of them (with revenue of $135 million and $38 million respectively).
Earnings of $6 billion may boost Russia to second place among the world’s arms exporters, after the USA, notes David Mulholland of Janes Defence Weekly. Besides, this is an absolute record for the post-Soviet history of Russia.
However, it was mainly achieved thanks to a rise in exports of spare parts and services; and these sources will soon prove insufficient for Russia to maintain sales at the level of at least $5 billion per annum, says Konstantin Makiyenko, an expert at the Strategy and Technology Analysis Center.
Exports will not decline within the next couple of years, adds Marat Kenzhetayev from the Center for Disarmament Studies at MFTI; according to Dmitriyev, the sales portfolio of Russian enterprises includes contracts to the amount of $14-15 billion. Russian arms producers will have to seek new markets after that, says Makiyenko. Sales to North Africa and the Middle East could be promising, as well as supplying strategic systems to China and India. According to Makiyenko’s calculations, China and India accounted for 65-75% of Russia’s exports in 2004. Dmitriyev promised Putin that Russian enterprises “are expecting orders from Saudi Arabia and, for the first time, from the Sultanate of Oman.”
Thus far, Russia is mainly selling aircraft abroad. According to a source at Rosoboronexport, aviation exports account for about half of total exports, and almost 60% of Rosoboronexport’s sales (that is, about $2.5 billion). Overall, India, China and Vietnam received 38 Su-30 fighters of various models. Almost all of 70 Mi-8/17 helicopters constructed at Russian plants were exported as well. At the same time, about 20% of Rosoboronexport deliveries are made up of vessels – China received the first Project 636 diesel submarine (out of eight ordered in 2002), while India acquired the last Project 11356 frigate. The share of air defense systems in Rosoboronexport sales was about 6% ($300 million). Besides, part of the revenue of the Tula Instrumentation Design Bureau ($242 million) probably came from Pantsir missile and artillery systems. Within the next couple of years, the share of air defense systems in Russian arms exports is expected to grow, says Kenzhetayev.
A major contract was concluded last year with China, for the supply of S-300 PMU-2 systems to the value of around $1 billion; these systems will also be supplied to Vietnam. Contracts for sales of Tor and Pantsir systems to the Middle East and India are also likely.
Translated by Andrei Ryabochkin
star49more here: 😀
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/org/cwp/projects/us_armscontrol/xinhua_pak_concerns.htmhe close defense cooperation between India and Israel has worried Pakistan and brought about quick response from Islamabad.
Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, Prime Minister ZafarullahJamali and other senior officials Wednesday held a meeting to discuss Sharon’s visit to India, Afghanistan and Iraq issues. Musharraf said that no compromise would be made on his country’s defense and all available resources would be allocated for this purpose. The sale of Phalcon systems was a matter of serious concern for Pakistan, he added.
Foreign Minister Khurshid Kasuri Wednesday said that Israel’s sale of weapons to India could disturb the balance of power in South Asia.
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booo hooo. anyway, lets not hijack the thread. if you warn them it will be
ignored, if you get close to them the islamist hordes in the street will be very angry. do whatever you want.
there is no need to bring old news. Pak do this from time to time to remind the other side where to put cash in India-Pak conflict.
star49there is Stand and Poor Feb 3 report comparing New york, Paris, London, Madrid and Moscow for 2012 olympics. suprizinly Moscow city has the lowest debt level of 24% of revenues while New York has the highest 102% of revenues. and also Moscow city is prepared to spend $15B on Olympic much more than the other cities.
star49My sources in US Congressional circles tell me that the F-16 deal will be quietly announced during the summer break of Congress to prevent any action by the Indian lobby to block the deal. Apparently two large groups of PAF pilots are already in the US and training on the vipers. It looks like Pakistan will get the birds soon after the deal is formalized.
Bush has already signed off on the sale of around 30 F-16s, all to be paid for by Pakistan with an option for another 35-40 later on. Musharraf has agreed to allow Pakistani territory to be used for action against Iran later this year, if taken. Iranian resistance group Mujahideen-e-Khalq has also been given access to operate from Pakistan and Pakistani coast is also open for coalition access to Iran.
Apparently, India has been told about this already and that it is irreversible. To mollify India, E-2Cs,C-130Js and F-16s have been offered, but will not be accepted.
This is the same BS like RD-93 engine issue and JF-17 radar issue.
PAF may induct some token numbers of F-16 and upgrades but not the numbers which you are quoting and money is very important issue in this matter. your iranian theory is day dreaming.
star49you may be surprised to hear that avionics can cost up to 50% of the total aircraft price 😮
Not 50% but upto 500%. 😉
star49$9B is not a big money considering the dramatic rise of EURO in past 4 years. It is around 7B in EU terms. Russians are still generous in TOTs and India can put western systems like -MKI/MKM concept. IAF needs aircraft for Strike and fully developed and i am not sure EF and Rafale will be fully ready by even 2010.
MIG-29 is the only and best option if you rule out F-16E.
star49IT seems Putin will be able to get his way. You cannot buy 126 EF or Rafale for $9B specifically if it involves deep license and complete new training and infrastructure. Just 80 F-16E cost $7B withou involving any licensing and infrastructure.
Flight International
11 Jan 2005
India’s government is to launch a programme worth more than $9 billion within the next two years to acquire 126 new multirole fighters, and appears to have shifted its preference towards the selection of a twin-engined aircraft. India’s defence ministry late last year forwarded revised specifications to international companies eyeing the requirement to replace the air force’s ageing MiG-21/23s.
The move appears to rule against platforms such as Dassault’s Mirage 2000H, Lockheed Martin’s F-16 and the Saab/BAE Systems Gripen, with lead rivals now thought to include Dassault’s Rafale, RSKMiG’s MiG-29 and the Eurofighter Typhoon. India will not consider a further derivative of Sukhoi’s Su-27, says Russia’s Rosoboronexport arms agency.
RSK MiG general director Aleksei Fiodorov says the MiG-29MRCA is on offer, with India believed to favour a proposal to include Phazotron-NIIR’s Kopyo radar
star49Found this news, bit old but anyways
http://www.navlog.org/pakistan_ffgs.html
Some info on http://sinodefence.com/navy/surface/jiangwei.asp
This is old description now. PN is interested in 3000ton plus class frigates thats why this thing is more delayed.
star49I have seen $10B development figure for PAK-FA over 8 year time period but i am more surprized by MIG statement that they are going to develop 5Th generation twin engine light fighter. Eithe those companies are stateowned or there salaries in dollars are not that much
star49Before one calls the IAF Mig 21 dominated, perhaps they forgot that those MiG-21s are upgraded Bisons with better radar and missiles than what 95% of the PAF fleet, for an airfore that lacks any type of BVR minus speculation and “plans to aquire in the future”, calling another airforce with MiG-29s, Mirages and Sukhois NOW is a bit of a joke.
Surely you know alot about Radars. You are comparing 57KM range Kopyo with over 100KM range GriofM3 which is priced higher than BARS in today prices. Regarding BVR why you havent seen the official SA news report where the reporter is directly talking to Government and Industry officials.
Here is some thing more. SA has exported stuff which they themselves havent using it.
Check under equipment.
http://www.saairforce.co.za/
It is believed that Raptor 2 has not entered SAAF service, but has been exported
In any event back to the f-16 the UAE does not have source codes for the block 60 as I posted with a link, they have “access to add things to the threat library”, hence a certain argument should be corrected, the USA would never let Pakistan have source codes access due to its friendship to China, plain and simple. And thunder my comments were not ment to compare India to Pakistan, rather to bring reality, those recent donations made to the PAF do indeed add to the capabilities of the PAF but those were long overdue and certainly I found the addition of Phalanax quite amusing as something to advertize, in ay event I am on your side, I pray for those F-16s in PAF colours.
Only time will show that PAF has codes or not but they will not admit it. PAF due its connection is very valuable Airforce so alot of airforces comes to it for evaluating new aircraft and that includes Flankers.
star49Hey All Yahoo may be right this time……..Actually He meant
India has to buy/Codevelop A(Advanced Air to Air missiles),B(Advanced Glonass/GPS Guided Bombs),C(Long Range Cruise Missiles),D(co-Developemnt License),E(Advanced ECCM) before it can lay hand on PAK-FA
Hope India Does 😀 :diablo:
The above are not enough and has more to do with Past. Think about future :diablo:
star49Russia has also exported Su-30MKKs to China, who has close ties to Pakistan. They sold Su-30MKIs to India, who obviously is not a close ally of Pakistan. So what’s your point of their marketing the Su-35/37 to the UAE? And it was 711 which appeared in Dubai as the “Su-37MR”, and it appeared there well before 2003. It would appear that they chose the new F-16 over the FLANKER.
You miss the point and it is different country. I will not disclose it now. There is also a Russian press release very very recent. More Flankers for South Asia and Middleast.
star49what happens when the Indians get their hands on PAK-FA? yes their involvement in the project seems dodgy at the moment and it might very well be they are given secondary level stuff, but even if they get it while after the RuAF does they will eventually get what should be a 5th gen at level of F-22 (again dodgy, can’t be sure with Russians 😉 ), which even if you give a few years leeway on the (highly optimistic) deadlines stated by the Russians will still not be that far off. So then i’d say it tilts heavily in their favour again dont’ you think?
As for land warfare and naval areas i’m not sure as i don’t know what both countries are going to be getting. But India doesn’t seem to have had a very big lead technology wise in army stuff, especially SF where it is often said it is at disadvantage (Yes yes i know it’s upgrading).
India has to buy A, B, C, D, E and in some way F items from Russia before it can lay hand on PAK-FA not to mention upgrades of -MKI that Russia intend to sell them. Steady stream on money. And you cannot be sure about Russian export policies in future. They have been very aggressive in promoting Su-35 since 2003 to certain OIL rich country having close associatio with PAF. So your Vision is premature.
star49Unlike the Flanker the Foxhound is designed to travel at near top speed during most of its missions. That is why it is based on the Mig-25 design… its top speed is Mach 2.83 and unlike the Flanker it will spend a lot of its time flying very fast. Put 4-6 of the heaviest AAMs in the world under a Flankers belly and fly it at mach 2.4 and see what its range is like… Operational flight range for the Mig-31 is 3,000km and over 5,000km with one inflight refuelling stop.
4 to 6 heavy AAM are just 2000KG. There is just 50KG difference between heavier version of R-27 and R-33. Are you sure about MIG-31 flight range of 3000KM on internal fuel
They are doing very different jobs. You don’t get a sprinter to run a marathon or vice versa.
It is not difference like marathon and sprint. Both have the similar operational speeds and Flanker has payload and range advantage not to mention higher operational readiness.
So all those nuclear weapon the US pointed at the SU were fake? All the sanctions and isolation were for the SUs’ benefit? Those carrier groups were to deliver roses once a day to the Kremlin? The Wests forces were always more threatening than those of the SU. Just looking at the logistics tail of the Soviet forces showed it was a tailless beast. It was a strike back in defence structure. On the other than the West was a mobile go anywhere and fight setup that has proved so useful post cold war for their little world policing role.
ICBMS, Cruise missilles reduce cost and give Global strike ability. The think is how to defend against them Efficiently and Economically (MIG-31 is a Gas guzzler). Su-27 would have done the job of both MIG-29 and MIG-31
Regarding your example what on Earth are you talking about? Are you talking about Afghanistan in 1979 or now or what? In 1979 the invasion of Afghanistan had nothing to do with an expected US invasion, though CIA money had been pouring into afghanistan since 1973.
yes they had poured money since early 70s but the best way to counter was to print as much as fake Western currencies and also drug money( West did supported Drug barrons to finance that war) and buy loyalties. there was no point in invasion and wasting money.
As I said above the Mig-31 is based on the Mig-25 and is designed to operate at high speed for most of its mission. There is no other reason for it to weigh over 50 tons on takeoff… more than 20 tons more than most flankers.
Probable it is using heavier engines and higher fuel capacity and i dont think higher top speed would have any advantage. No body is going for that speed again even with internal weopons.
Both were part of the aircraft design. It also has to do with the situational awareness provided by being directed to the target by GCI and knowing where and when to look. It was a System.
The same can be done with any other aircraft it all depends on priorities.
So it is OK to waste Trillions of dollars… as long as you are rich… nice.
ofcourse only rich can waste money.
There isn’t now, but then the competition was a good thing.
Over competition and excess supplies can do economic damage.
The time between them is irrelevant. They were entering different force structures to replace different aircraft perofroming very different roles.
Time is the key. No body put into service the same capability in two different platforms.
Loads and strength have nothing to do with it… the Su-27IB has fixed inlets and can’t fly faster than 1,900km/h… compared to the Mig-31s 3,000km/h.
Top speed is not important it is the sustain speed and quick accleration and climb rates that are important.
So how do you decide what you need? Do you also ignore what your manufacturers can or cannot make? Death Stars all round I guess.
Requirements are specified by Airforce.
Both were day short range fighters… the F-16 had a bit more range and air to ground capability but the Mig had better BVR capability but could only drop dumb bombs and tactical nuclear weapons. The Mig was a conventionally controlled fighter with no PGMs for air to ground use and it couldn’t even use IR guided or even any long burn model R-27s. Its air to air capability was R-60s, R-73s and R-27Rs only. Since then it has added a fully digital data bus fly by wire controls, several digital mission and weapon and control computers and ECM suite, new nav and comm systems, more powerful engines and a very wide range of Air to Air and air to ground munitions, extra hard points thrust vector control extra range etc etc.
You forget F-16 5300KG weopon load vs 3000KG of Fulcrum since beginning.
Fine, then an interceptor version of the Tu-22M2. Huge range, good payload for combat persistance, huge radar and enough space onboard for crew to operate the systems…
thats fine if your are using long range BVRs and give commonality with your bomber fleet.
Well why don’t you teach me history… who introduced MIRV warheads first? Who introduced long range cruise missiles… who maintained a carrier force large enough for an invasion? Who kept an economic grip on the other …isolating and keeping poor? When they discovered the bomber and missile gaps didn’t exist did they stop production or did they maintain production and go for first strike capability?
There is big difference between Nuclear forces having global strike ability and keeping 5 million under arms. even Chinais not doing it despite its larger economy and population. 1 million was fine for entire Soviet Union.
Well in that case a Yak-9 with HMS and R-73s would be much cheaper… the Yak-9DD would have more range than the Mig-21.
latest MIG-21 has Mach 2 speed and higher TWR and any way you are depending on GCI so comparision is valid.
The main problem there is ego… a Fulcrum couldn’t possibly be as good as an F-16… why I am sure the F-16A is better than any model Fulcrum blah blah blah. Funny how the F-16 is some sort of superfighter right out of the box, yet the Mig-29A which most rate on par with a late model Mig-21 that has also evolved and seems to have everything a late model F-16 has has not evolved as far as the F-16. Calling a nigger a nigger I guess, except it isn’t black and white it is blue and red.
Current F-16 has same range with CFT as Flanker and can carry the same as Flanker and you can put AIM-120 on wing tip. There shouldn’t be any doubt about it that F-16 is the best Tactical fighter in operations.
Still blaming those Soviets for wasting all that money and at the same time ignoring that the West wasted rather more is also an amusing game. So the Soviets had less money to waste therefore their actions were a crime. Apparantly the wests money (aquired pillaging the known world) can be wasted with impunity.. I guess they are expected to waste money.
It is not that Soviet Union wasted money but also West carefully recruited the whole world against them from democracies to dictatorships to communists/socialist and at the end Terrorists. So it was multi-facted attack on Soviet Union which they try to defend only through conventional arms instead of using other tools. Not a smart strategy.
star49That was the original report and blockage of source codes but they did mention that congress put sanction on Pakistan so US could not release it but now sanctions are lifted so may by the situation is different.
Pakistani pilot deal linked to US block on UAE technology release.
449 words
24 March 1999
Flight International
8
English
(Plans by the United Arab Emirates air force to contract up to 200 Pakistan air force fighter pilots to fly F-16D Block 60 fighters it has ordered from Lockheed Martin are at the heart of the US Government’s decision to block the release of sensitive technology to the Gulf state, say sources close to the deal.
The UAE needs experienced pilots for training and operation of 80 new fighters it plans to buy from Lockheed Martin and 63 new Dassault Mirage 2000-9 fighters purchased from France.
The USA and the UAE have been in protracted talks over the acquisition of the advanced Block 60 version of the F-16 since May last year, when the UAE selected the US-built fighter over the Dassault Rafale. Negotiations have stalled over Washington’s refusal to release software source coding for the new generation Northrop Grumman APG-68 ABR radar for the Block 60, despite a UAE commitment to fund the radar’s development as launch customer for the latest variant of the fighter.
Earlier this month, it appeared that the radar issue had been resolved, but that the transfer of source codes for the electronic warfare system were under the USA’s export controls spotlight (Flight International, 10-17 March).
Further problems have emerged over US reluctance to allow Pakistani pilots to fly the aircraft and so gain access to its latest generation active array radar and electronic warfare technology.
The US Government has been at odds with Pakistan since Congress slapped an arms ban on Islamabad for its moves to develop nuclear weapons. The action resulted in the USA blocking delivery of 28 F-16A/Bs.
If the technology is not released under the Block 60 purchase, the UAE has said it will be forced to reopen the fighter competition.
Sources close to the Gulf state say a UAE delegation will hold up to two months of detailed talks with the US Department of Defense in Washington DC, starting on 15 April, to resolve the issue. “We are still studying the deal with our [US] friends,” says Lt Gen Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, chief of staff of the UAE armed forces. “We have asked for certain requirements. If they are not met, then the UAE can go for other options.”
Partly because of such statements, speculation was growing at the show that the UAE wants to evaluate the Eurofighter Typhoon and look again at the Dassault Rafale. British Aerospace originally provided the UAE with information on the Eurofighter but says it did not bid formally.
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