star49I thought India bought all that to stop China. :rolleyes:
Sameer. Just stop.
I have also one example of that from 1995. 😀
star49The fallacy here is not that Pakistan is getting deent weapons rather it is an impression that the balance always tilts in Pakistan’s favour due to Phalanax purchases, the only threat to the IN is the Agosta that is the only thing they are worried about as far as the PN is concearned, to that end a large fleet of anti submarine helis and sonar upgrades have taken place, anyway to be honest I am personally praying for Pakistan to get F-16s, nothing better than to get the slow moving defence purchases of the Govt of INdia to move faster, the sale of F-16s will hit the timesof india, there will be talk of IAF in grace danger and soon Mirages will be bought.
India Mirage deal is not tied to PAF getting F-16. It is more tied to Russian lobby inside India and open threats from Russia to buy MIGs otherwise Putin will refuse to cooperate and will compromise Indian weopons to rival party.
star49Pakistan can’t tell France to do anything because India is a massively paying customer, you think India’s 12bn USD order for new planes and technology will be dropped for Pakistan? Next, the Russians, hello, Pakistan was an enemy of Russia for decades, you think the Russians will just “forget” that? We were one of the catalyists to the Soviet Union’s downfall weren’t we? Any weapon we get from Russia, you can thank China for it, given that in most cases, they do come through China.
As for new nuclear delivery systems, one must first ask when Pakistan will use nuclear weapons, it’ll more or less be when it is in a tough position, near loss in a conventional war.
Cold war is long over and Russia has started selling to China (which had border clashes) Malaysia and Indonesia and even Nato members Greek and Turkey and even South Korea. The fact is Russia in 90s was poor and Pakistan was already hooked up on US, French and Chinese weopons(and later South Africa and UKraine) so the small budget does not allow it to diversify further. So there was not reason for Russia to pursue it further. But as Russia going to be richer it is going to pursue the same policies just Like France and US. Selling to both sides depending on money and interests.
here is US example. The only thing India can influenced is US congress to a certain extent by buying a particular lobby but India cannot influence US interests.
WASHINGTON: There is no contradiction between having strong and good relations with India, and meeting the defence needs of other countries through the sale of US arms.
Spokesman for the State Department Adam Ereli said this on Tuesday when he was asked at the daily Press briefing to comment on Indian foreign office spokesman Navtej Singh Sarna’s comment in Delhi that arms sales to Pakistan could affect relations between US and India.
Supporting the arms sales to Pakistan, the spokesman said, “The US arms sales policy is clear and is governed by US interests and congressional legislation, it is transparent, it is publicly notified, and we have done that in the case of the recent transactions in question. So, I think, there should be no question that you can have good relations with one country, and sell arms to another country. It is not a mutually exclusive proposition, and nor should it be.”
star49So what? If you must know, I was born in India but I am a Canadian citizen now. This does not stop me from maintaining an interest in the country of my origin. I am very proud to be of Indian descent and I am also very proud to be Canadian.
You made a statement about your nationality so i responded.
True. However, the F117 is actually a fighter, albeit used in an almost purely Air-to-Surface role.
Now, how about switching the discussion back to the Indo-Israeli air force exercises, eh?
So it is bomber if it is use exclusively as a bomber. Other wise how you define a bomber from fighter? Slow speed?
star49As opposed to your rantings, which are based on 400% fact? 😀
Atleast i do not put false dates on old stories and try to present as new one 😀
star49And what might this source be? You?!! 😮
It is probably the Chinese manufacturer claiming a certain level of “stealthy characteristics”, whatever these might be. If they were intended to be of any significance, they may have compared it to the current operational benchmarks of stealth, i.e. the F117 and the B2. If this is indeed an actual claim by the Chinese, then it has sales pitch written all over it, nothing else.Oh BTW, I am Chinese and I have this bridge I’d like to sell to you. It is already painted green and is invisible to radar. 😀 :diablo:
F-117 and B-2 are in bomber category and when it was written F-22 was not in operations. So you can compare it 4+ generation fighters. You cannot false sales pitch with such obvious thing.
Your an Indian when you recognized the HUD of MIG-21BIS.
star49And you have asked about JF-17 stealthness proof. here it is and it is authoritive source.
The aircraft has a “traditional” exterior using a single engine, conventional layout for air intake under both sides of the fuselage, mobile flaps on the leading edge of the wings, and fuselage stripes. The plane has a relatively long wingspan of 9 metres. It appears “traditional” but in reality is sophisticated, integrating new achievements in China’s aerodynamic research. In particular, it correctly handles the relationship between controllability, high mobility, and a large angle of attack. Meanwhile, it also takes into account the stealthy characteristics and requirements of new-generation fighters.
Compared with other fighters of the same period, the new plane has a very practical feature. It can choose with ease various advanced missiles and other advanced weapons. It has seven racks, with the maximum external carriage weight of 3,800 kg. The kinds of external carriage includes short-range air-to-air missiles, medium-range air-to-air missiles, conventional/precise guidance anti-runway bombs, and various pods. If this new fighter launches surface/sea attacks, it can choose Chinese and Russian anti-ship missiles and air-to-surface missiles from Western countries
star49All your report is bogus. Every thing is from outside sources and mixingit up. It is from same JED online source.
The 1970s-vintage aircraft need major upgrades to extend their service life until 2020, said a senior Indian Air Force official. Enhancements will include the installation of an advanced EW suite and modern avionics systems, such as secure communications, datalinks, and night-vision goggles — all of which will be procured through an international tender later this year, according to a MoD official.
using technolgy from russian for mission computers.
The other avionics and mission computers planned for India’s Su-30MKI multi-role aircraft are to be incorporated in the upgraded MiG-27 aircraft as well. HAL is already under contract to build 140 Su-30MKIs over the next 17 years using technology transferred from Russia
The bottom line is that India buy technology from several sources and for several projects so it is difficult to keep track of it and later rename it as if is indigenous which further complicate the matters.
star49Anyway i donot put any stock on this worthless aircraft.
Statesman (India), June 25, 2001
The IAF has always said that more MiGs crash because the force has more MiGs, but accident rates are measured by the number of crashes per 10,000 hours of flying time. The MiG-27 has the highest accident rate: 2.86 and the MiG-23 is second at 2.71. The MiG-21, perhaps incorrectly considered crash-prone is third with 2.37.
Just to remind that Russians are watching even the smallest of activity and will show there stance at appropriate time.
A Russian diplomat based in New Delhi who preferred to remain anonymous claimed that HAL should not upgrade MiG 27 by banking too much on the West for electronics systems because tampering with the aircraft in such a manner could lead to problems
star49This will further burst your Indigenous bubble.
Journal of Electronic Defense, June 2002 ,Pulkit Singh; Michal Fiszer; Jerzy Gruszczynski.
In the latest in a series of moves to enhance the capabilities of the Indian Air Force, the Indian Ministry of Defense (MOD) has assigned state-owned aircraft manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL, Nasik, India) the task of upgrading some 135 MiG-27s under a program costing an estimated $650 million. HAL will upgrade the MiG-27 aircraft in phases, beginning with a lot of 40, and incorporate avionics and other electronics systems from international companies, primarily from Israel and Russia, with completion slated for 2008.
Systems already selected for the upgrade include the Vinten (now Thales) Vicon optical reconnaissance pod and the Rafael Litening II forward-looking infrared (FLIR)/laser-designation pod, both of which are already in service with the Indian Air Force. Elbit Systems will provide a digital moving map.
star49Selective quotation indeed. So basically now you admit that India upgrades its MiGs on its own.
Heres what you “missed” highlighting from your own article. ROTFL.
The Indian Defence Research and Development Organisation signed a memorandum of understanding to develop two prototype aircraft with HALat the Aero India show this month, but has not releaseddetails of the programme.
Any kid could find details of the upgrade program. Here let me help you out. Take my finger.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE2-6/rupak.html
In flight refuelling, modifications to the structure plus fuel system, Oxygen storage improvements, better turbo cooler- all developed via the LCA- all these are merely avionics in the bizarre world Star49 inhabits. 😀
Go get yourself an education.:p
You should know that you cannot play this game with me. There is a Big difference between Indigenous upgradation and collection of components from various sources for Integration purposes This is more of integration programme rather than local development as mentioned by this report. your own link gives about Litening pods and SuperKomar radar. and I am not sure from where the communicaiton and navigation system comes from.
PTI – The Press Trust of India Ltd., July 23, 2003
Asia Pulse Pte Ltd
New Delhi, Jul 23 (PTI) India’s Defence Minister George Fernandes on Wednesday informed the Rajya Sabha, the Parliament’s Upper House, that there was no change in the upgradation programme of MIG-27 aircraft and that no decision for replacement of the engine of the aircraft with AL-31 engine was taken by the government.
In a written reply, he said the upgradation programme of 40 MIG-27 aircraft has already commenced.
During the design and Development phase, he said Defence Reaserch and Development Organisation (DRDO) will do the avionics integration activities and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) will carry out the modification work on two aircraft.
The series modification of the remaining aircraft will be undertaken by HAL, the Minister said.
To another question, Fernandes declined to state how many MIG aircraft the country has but admitted that 52 MIF fighter aircraft have met with Category-I accidents between January 2000 and July 17, 2003.
star49I have to find out where the engines are overhauled
All the MiG-23 aircraft came from the erstwhile Soviet Union but some of the MiG-27s were made by Hindustan Aeronautics here. The problems were serious enough for two Russian aircraft engineers to be on deputation at 9 Wing at Halwara, in Punjab and 5 Wing at Kalaikunda.
star49It seems that India want avionics upgrade only and even in that MIG will refuse to certify the aircraft.
Flight International, Feb 18, 2003
RSK MiG has begun talks with the Indian air force on an upgrade programme for its ageing fleet of Mikoyan MiG-27 Flogger fighter-bombers, which is now described by India as a “priority”.The Russian manufacturer claims the complex structural life extensionand related airframe modificationcan only be performed by the original design team, which is now within the RSK organisation, to assure safety.
RSK’s deputy director general Gennadiy Archipov says it has proposed an upgrade to the engine, avionics and weapons system, which is now under consideration (Flight International, 2-8 April, 2002).
Archipov says replacement of the MiG-27’s 25,330lb-thrust (113kN)Tumansky R-29B with the 27,560lb-thrust NPO Saturn AL-31FN engine requires modification of the aircraft tail as well as new intakes. “The air intake for the AL-31 is significantly different and requires changes to the whole aircraft design,” he says.
Archipov says “only the original design team can carry out such comprehensive changes”, despite India’s interest in carrying out the work locally. Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) licence-produced many of India’s MiG-27s.
The Indian Defence Research and Development Organisation signed a memorandum of understanding to develop two prototype aircraft with HALat the Aero India show this month, but has not releaseddetails of the programme.
RSK has repeatedly claimed that upgrades by non-Russian companies to MiG designs without its input are not safe.Russian state arms exporter Rosoboronexport reportedly says that India’s use of non-original equipment manufacturer spare parts for the Mikoyan MiG-21 has contributed to its poor safety record. India has lost at least 158 MiG-21s over the past 20 years
star49Subject discussions are supposed to begin next year after the government has named the contractor on the Russian side (this will probably be Sukhoi).
What is meant by this sentence. Subject discussion does not lead to agreement even after 4 years and Putin is getting restless :D.
Just wait a minute every thing will come into open in next few months as first flight is now just 2 years away and money has to be put now.
star49Read the link and the date therein 27 DECEMBER 2004. Dont try to be dumber than you already are. Or lie more than you already do 😀
Date is on the front page. The Report is old. You can just read from the report that they havent even assigned a contractor.
Sign In
