star49So change to MK2 from MK.
Vietnam Receives Jets
MOSCOW (AP) — Russia has supplied Vietnam with four Su-30MK2 multifunctional jet fighters, a top official at aircraft manufacturer Sukhoi said Monday.
Alexander Klementyev, deputy director general at the jet manufacturer, told the Interfax news agency that the four fighters were delivered several days ago under the terms of a contract signed last December.
Terms of the contract were not revealed. Defense analysts have said in the past that Su-30 Flankers cost about $35 million per plane.
star49Currently how many Mirage III/V of the Pakistan Air Force field the Grifo-M radar ?
Does anyone have specifications for this radar ? All i know is that it is an Italian copy of the APG-68 of the F-16 C.
From various reports. It looks comparable to me to APG-68(V7) or APG-66(V2) as it does not have SAR mode. That was introduced in Grifo-2000 and Grifo S-7. And i have no idea of exact Grifo for Mirages. I tend to think there are more strike versions equipped with FLIR than with Grifo Radar.
star49Just look at the Radar cost only.
Flight International
February 21, 1996GRIFO DEAL
BODY:
Italy’s Fiar has concluded a $ 50 million deal with the Pakistani defence ministry for the supply of 30 Grifo-M3 multi-mode pulse-Doppler radars for the air force’s Dassault Mirage III upgrade. The contract award follows a prolonged flight-test programme in a testbed aircraft in Pakistan during 1995. The company is also supplying Pakistan with the Grifo as part of its Shenyang F-7P upgrade programme
star49Is INTEGRATED DEFENCE SYSTEMS part of NESCOM now ?
On this i have no idea. It looks more work of AWC and NESCOM.
star49So the PAF has converted the T-Darter into some sort of long-range AGM, and is calling it the H-4?
You have to see the logic and pattern of news reports. All points towards Air to air and BVR missiles non of it towards PGMs and all of sudden PAF announce PGM with South African technology without declaring the BVR part. Just mentioning the technology. and one Grifo M3 radar costs $1.7Million in 1995 prices. Current prices is well into $5M. It is more expensive than all russian radars in the market. What is that for?
star49The “unspecified customer” you’re talking about might not be Pakistan, but rather Chile, who is known to have bought and integrated the R-Darter onto it’s F-5 fleet.
“We made a breakthrough recently by acquiring the technology,”-could mean they selected a manufacturer or signed a deal. Could mean they took delivery of something. Doesn’t expressly state a Kentron project.
Chile is in Asia :rolleyes:
Read the first 1995 report where unspecified Asian customer. And signing does not mean that you acquire the technology. It takes alot of time after sigining.
star49This is PAF statement about these PGMs and its step towards BVR.
ISLAMABAD, Dec 17: Pakistan Air Force has integrated the H-4 out-of-sight target bombs in its arsenal of fighter aircraft, official sources said. The incorporation of H-4 bombs have added to the capability of the PAF to hit out-of-sight targets from a distance of up to 120 kilometres to evade enemy radars during air strikes. A lighter version of the bomb, H-2 model, can hit the out-of-sight targets from a range of up to 60 kilometres.
“It is a step towards adding the Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles to our arsenal for defensive purposes and to address the strategic imbalance in the region,” sources said.
The indigenously produced H-4 bombs is an achievement of the National Engineering and Scientific Commission (NESCOM), which works in close collaboration with Pakistan Missile Organizationand the Air Weapons Complex.
“Three successful tests of H-4, with the latest conducted this year, produced satisfactory results leading to addition of arsenal in the fighter jets,” the sources said.
The H-4 bombs have been made through indigenous efforts by modifying the technological design of South African T-Darter BVR missiles. Till the induction of JF-17 Thunder in 2006, with a provision for BVRs, the H-2 and H-4 bombs could be carried by Mirage fighter jets. The H-4 infrared device is said to be comparable to that of the AA11, AA12 and Python 4 in the Indian arsenal.
star49I guess what I should be asking is whether you have anything on these projects that isn’t at least 5 years old.
Why PAF officiail statements of December 2003 and Aprile 2004 looks 5 years old? South Africa will not publicly admit it now becaue they want to sell $4B of Howitzers(Denel)(But they will soon find the reality of that deal 😀 )
star49The H-2 appears to be figured out, but the H-4 is still an unknown based on what you just posted from Flight International.
Apparently South African designation for BVR is V series and H series for PGM. Now PAF does not have to follow exactly the same numbering.
http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/text/missiles/aam.html
SOUTH AFRICA
Denel
Kukri V-3B IR 0.3-4 2.5 73 294/13/53
Kentron
Darter V-3C IR 0.3-10 2 89 275/16/66 Uses “twist-and-turn”
control, with one set of fixed forward fins and offset 90 deg to them
tandem control surfaces like Magic, which it is otherwise similar too.
Turns up to 35G.
U-Darter IR 0.3-10? 2? 89? 275/16/66 Like Darter, but with
cruciform tandem control surfaces. Turns at 55G, off boresight
capability up to 56 deg. In service (1997)
A-Darter IIR
Reported to have a peak manoeuvrability of 100G.
The A-Darter uses both tail control and thrust vectoring. Full scale development has not begun (1997). Guided flight tests to start (1999).
V4 R-Darter AR Entered service
around 1995, has at least two launch modes with lock on before
or after launch. Probably shares some technology with Derby.
S-Darter/LRAAM ramjet powered, in development
T-Darter AR /50+ Air breathing, mid-course datalink.
Probably an SAHV-3 development.
Offered to Pakistan (1999).
SOUTH AFRICA
Kentron/Denel
ZT3 Swift CLOS /4 ? ? ? 135/13/ anti-tank
Kentron
Raptor 1 /60 glide 1200 TV and datalink.
Raptor 1 Flip out wings. May be designated H2.
Raptor 2 /120 Raptor 1 with rocket booster.
Denel
MUPSOW / stand off dispenser system
Torgos IIR /300 ? 980 450
Developed from MUPSOW.
star49Now this is load of information about the same thing.
341 words
24 February 1999
Flight InternationalDenel of South Africa is offering Pakistan a package of air-to-air weaponry for its planned Chengdu Super 7 fighter being jointly developed with China. It includes a proposed joint development of a datalink-equipped radar-guided beyond visual range (BVR) missile.
The Pakistan air force confirms it is evaluating a range of active-guided BVR missiles, including the newly proposed T-Darter development by Denel’s Kentron. The air force’s Super 7 chief project director, Air Vice Marshal Hamid Khawaja, describes the South African missile as “very impressive on paper”.
T-Darter is understood to be a further development of Kentron’s radar-equipped R-Darter now in low-rate production and Ramjet-powered S-Darter or LRAAM. The new proposed air-breathing missile would incorporate a datalink for mid-course guidance updates and effective target engagements at ranges in excess of 50km (27nm).
The South African company acknowledges “Kentron has been discussing various proposals for air-to-air missiles with the Pakistan air force. These proposals include the U-Darter and derivatives of the Darter family, such as the fifth generation A-Darter missile, as well as the ramjet technology developed by Denel’s Sochem division.”Pakistan is keen to acquire a BVR capability to counter the Indian air force’s likely acquisition of the Vympel AA-12 (R-77) to arm its new Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighters and upgraded MiG-29 and MiG-21bis. India also has its indigenous Astra programme.
“They (India) have the advantage,” claims Pakistan’s chief of air staff Air Chief Marshal Parvaiz Mehdi Qureshi, ” the Su-30s will definitely come with the AA-12 and they also plan to upgrade their other air defence aircraft. We’re looking at various BVRs, be it the French (Matra-BAe) Mica, the Russian AA-12 and there are others like South Africa. “We would also like to develop something ourselves in collaboration with others,” says Qureshi.
star49They dont want to name the parter because they will lose the Howitzer business with India.
Radar-guided missiles for SAAF are unveiled.
305 words
12 September 2000
Flight InternationalDenel’s Kentron Dynamics division and the South African Air Force displayed the R-Darter medium-range, radar-guided air-to-air missile (AAM) for the first time.
Known by the SAAF as the V4, the missile has been in-service for around a year. R-Darter is compatible with the SAAF’s Denel Cheetah fighters and will be integrated on to the Saab/BAE Systems Gripen when the fighter enters service in 2006.
Chris Haines, Kentron Dynamics marketing and business development head, says that the company has started to market the missile overseas and already has international partners which cannot be named. One possible partner is Israel, which is believed to have aided development of the missile’s active seeker.Haines suggests that as well as the Dassault Mirage family – the Cheetah is an upgraded Mirage III – the R-Darter could also be integrated with the Northrop F-5, and Lockheed Martin F-16.
Meanwhile, Kentron plans further test firings of its A-Darter short-range infrared (IR) guided AAM later this year, says Haines. The missile is funded as a technology demonstrator, and could become the SAAF’s next short-range weapon.
Although the R-Darter was specified as part of the Gripen weapons package, no short-range AAM was defined. Industry sources believe South Africa is likely to release a request for proposals for such a weapon within two years.
Competitors are likely to include the BGT IRIS-T, Matra BAe Dynamics (MBD) ASRAAM, Rafael Python 4 and the Raytheon AIM-9X. The former is being trialled on the Gripen and Sweden is part of the international development team.
Meanwhile, industry sources say MBD is considering the A-Darter’s South African-developed imaging IR seeker as an alternative to ASRAAM’s Raytheon seeker.
star49And where is the proof in those articles? “declines to identify”, “believed to”, “unspecified”, sounds like a lot of conjecture to me. Clearly Kentron is doing something, but it can’t even be proven from those snippets that anything has to do with Pakistan, other than there is a $160 million missile deal. You can’t prove type, nor can you prove in the first article that Pakistan is even involved.
And which other countery has ever made claim about H-2 and H-4? And do you think U-darter is that expensive for $160M in mid nighties prices. It is equivalent to $300M now. U-darter is Matra Magic with 55 g load and 55 degree offboresight.
star49This is about H-2 and H-4
395 words
18 March 1998
Flight International
17
EnglishDouglas Barrie/LONDON
Kentron, South Africa’s leading missile manufacturer, is offering unpowered and powered versions of its still classified Raptor precision guided weapon for export. Details have been seen by Flight International.
Development of the stand-off weapons family, the export of which remains a sensitive issue in South Africa, has been under way for two decades. Kentron declines to comment on the project.
The Raptor 1, thought to be known internally within the South African Air Force (SAAF) as H2, is a television-guided glide bomb with a range of around 60km (32nm). The weapon, believed to have been used operationally, is a development of the H1-a TV-guided bomb which was effectively a technology testbed.
Development of the Raptor 1 began in the late 1970s and it is believed to have entered operational service no later than the mid-1980s on the SAAF’s Dassault Mirage F1.The weapon was carried on an inboard wing station on the F1, with the datalink pod carried on the other inboard wing station. On SAAF Cheetah aircraft, the weapon is carried on the centre-line pylon.
In the late 1980s, Kentron also began to work on an extended range version of the basic glide bomb, the H3, which has more than double the launch envelope of the H2. The H3 appears to have been a development for what is referred to for export as the Raptor 2.
The Raptor 2 is being offered with TV and infra-red seekers. An accuracy of a 3m centre of error probability is given for the weapon. An anti-radiation seeker is also being offered as an alternative guidance option to allow the weapon to be used in the suppression of enemy air defences.
The range improvement is derived from a solid fuel motor pack attached to the underside of the guided weapon. The Raptor 2 can be fitted with both fragmentation and penetration warheads. Navigation for the weapon is provided either by the global positioning system or by way point updates.
Kentron is also continuing to receive limited SAAF funding for the MUPSOW long-range stand-off missile. The propulsion unit from the MUPSOWis also being used by GEC-Marconi in its bid to provide the United Arab Emirates with a stand-off weapon, the PGM-4, or the Centaur.
star49now this from the horse mouth
http://www.dawn.com/2004/04/17/top6.htm
“We have now selected the BVR missiles for integration into the JF-17 Thunder. We made a breakthrough recently by acquiring the technology,” he said. He said the JF-17 would also carry H-2 and H-4 bombs
star49You have to look at the whole pattern of reports.
28 April 1999
Flight International
17Paul Lewis/RIO DE JANEIRO
Denel plans soon to begin guided testing of the Kentron A-Darter air-to-air missile (AAM), while pursuing derivative naval and AAM developments of its SAHV-3 surface-to-air missile system.
The South African manufacturer is pushing ahead with work on the A-Darter, with the help of technology funding in the absence of a full-scale development budget. It has completed two years of test firing to validate the missile’s propulsion and ballistics.
Denel hopes to widen testing by the end of the year to include a new, indigenously developed, imaging infrared seeker. Also under local development is a helmet-mounted sight for off-boresight missile cueing. The missile is being promoted as an alternative to the Matra British Aerospace Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile.
The company, speaking at a recent defence show in Brazil, says that the A-Darter seeker could also be adapted as a future enhancement to the new, vertically launched, Umkhonto missile under development for the South African navy’s planned four Meko 100-class corvettes. The 12km (7 mile)-range missile under test is fitted with a simpler infrared seeker than that of the earlier U-Darter AAM, to keep costs down, according to Denel.
Initial and mid-course guidance is provided by the ship until the infrared seeker can lock on in the terminal phase. The Umkhonto draws much of its design from the land launched SAHV-3 system, including a 180mm-diameter body, servo-powered tail control and thrust vectoring vanes in the motor nozzle for launch control.
It is understood that the SAHV 3 also forms the basis of South Africa’s T-Darter beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile proposal to Pakistan for its planned Super 7 fighter, rather than the R-Darter as earlier reported.The missile, which is still at the concept stage, would incorporate a tail control, active-radar guided seeker head and datalink for mid-course correction (Flight International, 24 February-2 March).
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