star49Malaysia Flanker cost is something around $1.4B. $900M for Irktut and rest between French, South African and German companies(with French Thales the most, Glass cockpit, EW suite and datalinks, radar warning from Avitronics). You can consider it equal to M2K-5 but not M2K9 in technology.
star49Nezavisimaya Gazeta, Moscow, in Russian 6 Dec 04 p 2/BBC Monitoring/(c) BBC
Excerpt from report by Russian newspaper Nezavisimaya Gazeta on 6 DecemberThe talks between the two countries’ military departments were difficult. For a long time India has been refusing to conclude a treaty with Russia on the protection of intellectual property. This topic became particularly acute when the two sides were close to developing joint projects, chief among which was the fifth- generation Su-30MKI fighter. If Russia has the intellectual rights to this item, in the long term it will receive more revenue from every contract.
“Until an agreement is signed no new technologies will be delivered,” your Nezavisimaya Gazeta observer was told by a high- ranking Defence Ministry source conveying the content of this ultimatum. The Indian premier said the question will be resolved within four months.Russia also set another tough condition for India. “We are the only country in the world which does not sell arms to Pakistan,” my source from the Defence Ministry confided with regard to this sore point. “We would like India to consider our requests regarding Eastern Europe.” This relates to the Indians’ purchases of counterfeit spare parts for Russian equipment. They are manufactured by Polish producers without licenses from our developers. “An aircraft crashes and later it emerges that it was fitted with an illegal Polish component,” my source said angrily. [Passage omitted]
Credit: Nezavisimaya Gazeta, Moscow, in Russian 6 Dec 04 p 2
Now this is some thing weird. Angry for not selling arms to Pak and buying contrafeit parts.
star49In response to a question from Interfax-Military News Agency, he said that the programme of licensed production in India envisages the annual assembly of six aircraft starting from 2005, eight from 2008, and 10 and more from 2009 till 2017.
Why not high light this part where the are clearly saying licensed production involves starting from 2005. it is part of Russian attempts to boost false ego of Indians by counting there product as part of assembling
star49“In compliance with the licensed production contract signed in 2000, India will produce a total of 140 Su-30MKI fighters in 2004- 2017. This is the largest contract, signed between Russia and India throughout their military-technical cooperation, with its overall cost assessed at 3bn dollars.”
That says they’re starting this year on the 140 jets. Now, don’t you think HAL knows just what is rolling out of their doors?
It depends how you interpret the news. One hand they are saying that most of the work was done in Russia for those two aircraft and license will start in 2005. Indian built MKI will fly in 2008 if they manage to do so without Russian. my assertion of assembling not manufacturing is correct. But it is another matter that they put it under license contract instead of counting towards direct delivery.
star49actually the confusion is due that Su-30K purchase which put 10 extra aircraft. Now they have put those assembling under license contract.
Interfax-AVN military news agency web site, Moscow, in English 1246 7 Dec 04/BBC Monitoring/(c) BBC
Text of report in English by Russian news agency Interfax-AVN web site
Moscow, 7 December: The combat capabilities of the Russian Su- 30MKI fighters produced in India on a licence will improve, President of the Irkut Corporation Aleksey Fedorov has told a news conference in Moscow.
“The licensed production of Su-30MKI aircraft will be organized in several stages that will provide for the improvement of combat capabilities of the fighters,” he said.
In response to a question from Interfax-Military News Agency, he said that the programme of licensed production in India envisages the annual assembly of six aircraft starting from 2005, eight from 2008, and 10 and more from 2009 till 2017.
He added that the first Russian multi-role Su-30MKI fighter built by Indian HAL on a licence was handed over to the Indian Air Force on 28 November 2004. [b]As of now, two such aircraft have been assembled there.
Fedorov added that most of the work was done in Russia, while the final assembly was organized at Indian enterprises.
He also said that the total price of all contracts signed for the delivery of 50 Su-30MKIs to India and licence production of another 140 such fighters is estimated at 5bn dollars.
Fedorov thinks that India is not the only foreign country interested in the Russian aircraft. He recalled that 18 Su-30MKms are to be delivered to Malaysia under a contract. Negotiations are under way with other countries, and it is possible that more contracts will be signed soon.
In compliance with the licensed production contract signed in 2000, India will produce a total of 140 Su-30MKI fighters in 2004- 2017. This is the largest contract, signed between Russia and India throughout their military-technical cooperation, with its overall cost assessed at 3bn dollars.
Under the contract, the HAL corporation got the licence to manufacture all components of the plane, including the unique AL- 31FP engine with thrust vector control, designed by the Lyulka- Saturn corporation.
A total of five Indian plants will participate in producing Su- 30MKIs, including the Nasik plant (tasked with assembling aircraft and their units) and the Koraput plant. Aircraft equipment, including the radar, will be produced at plants, situated in Lucknow, Korwai, and Hyderabad.
Licensed production is divided into several stages. The share of parts, exported from Russia, will decrease with each stage, while that of parts, manufactured in India, will increase. From 2007-2008 on, the Su-30MKI is expected to be completely assembled at HAL enterprises.
At the present time India operates 18 Su-30K and 22 Su-30MKI fighters. It is the world’s first state to have fielded aircraft, powered by thrust vector control nozzle engines.
The Su-30MKI is fitted with the Bars radar, capable of detecting enemy fighters at a range of up to 130 km in the forward hemisphere, and over 60 km in the rear hemisphere.
The aircraft is capable of carrying almost the whole range of weapon systems with a total weight of up to eight tonnes. Its range totals 3,000 km without refuelling, or 5,200 km with one refuelling.
Credit: Interfax-AVN military news agency web site, Moscow, in English 1246 7 Dec 04
star49http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=59822
40. 10 more. That makes your 50. The jet delivered from HAL is one of the 140, not the 10 you are referring to.
Total MKI are 190. that Indian parts MKI is not built yet.
star49Here’s more…
http://www.mosnews.com/money/2004/11/29/indiajets.shtml
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=59822
thats why i put the number 50 not 40. 40 direct deliveries and 10 from SKD kits. It is not manufacturing.
star49there is no confusion. I will post full articles about it later when i get back to my computer. here is some newsbit from russian source.
http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2004/12/08/044.html
Irkut Closing ‘Deal of the Century’
By Lyuba Pronina
Staff Writer It took more than eight years, but the “deal of the century” for Russia’s aircraft industry is finally drawing to a close.
Irkut, the privately controlled maker of Sukhoi fighter jets, said Tuesday it had finished the last six of 40 Su-30s ordered by India in 1996, and will deliver them by Dec. 20.
star49That’s funny, this one is being reported as the first produced under HAL’s 140-jet license. I haven’t seen anything to suggest that any of them are being kit-built, rather they’re supposed to be indigenously manufactured and assembled, along with over 900 engines.
Nope. It is not part of that 140 but first 50 to be delivered from Russia. Moscow times called it conclusion of first part of contact.
star49WRONG. The first HAL-assembled Su-30MKI rolled out a week or two ago. There was even a nice picture of the jet in JDW.
There is a difference between manufacturing a product and assembling it from foreign parts. that MKI agreement stipulates manufacturing 140. it has nt started yet. It will be around 2008-9 when you will see the first prodtuct.
star49No, what’s funny is that the F-16 has been offered to India on more than one occasion, including technology transfer.
I havent seen US government offer untill this point of time. Corporate offeres are different thing.
star49You’re forgetting the 130 or so Su-30MKIs that HAL is producing as well. Simply wishing the IAF will go away will not make it so.
Nope. I am not overlooking any thing. they got 32 MKI and 18 K models in 10 year time frame. and they havent built any of Flankers from there own local manufacturing process and raw materials. And can you imagine what will happen to AL-31 engine and radar without Russia supervision. i am not even going into time frame issues.
star49LOL, heard of airframe upgrades?
How many hrs incease. i have asked this before and you have only around 60 upgraded MIG-21 in over a decade time by the time they are all upgraded they will be nearing retirement.
The F7 upgrade the PAF carried out, is a farce! A limited radar, no MFD, no EW to speak of , no BVR ability…and we are to be impressed by the vintage and the fact that they are in Pakistani service?
What is meant by limited Radar and BVR for F-7. F-7/MIG-21 can barely stay for half an hr in air and you want to do long range BVR fight with it. and there is no point of installing Phased array radar with SAR mode when it can harldy lift up 1500KG for strike. Completely worth less upgrade. In comparision Mirage 3 can lift 4000KG which is equal to MIG-27.
I trust the poor AF’s worldwide which operate MiG29’s, F16’s etc of an earlier vintage are quaking in their boots, both at Star49s relevations and his deductive precision.
You dont have to look any further than your own Minister statement in Parliment. How much he is quacking from 25 F-16s. It cannot be more funnier than this 😀
star49It is not big now, but it will get bigger. Obviously with more practice…oops upgradation. Plz have more patience. A little here & a little there lost initially does not mean that they do not grow back at all. :diablo:
A little loss? 51 aircrafts in 3 years from recent reports. By the time you finalize the new aircraft deal. Another 200 will be not present and another 400 will be retired. so basically nothing left in future for IAF. oh i forget about LCA entering service in decade time.
star49Now thats funny dont you think? Considering that no other airforce in the world – be it american, european or your favourite chinese – has better platforms other than the same 70’s era platform and are only now in the process of aquiring latest platforms. Your own airforce is operating 50’s airframes a.ka. modified, reverse engineered again modified Mig 21’s with no new procurements in sight and the one comin up is but a variation of the same 50’s platform. Given the condition of PAF, I would consider IAF well equipped 🙂 But I dont claim to know everything, who knows there may be some PAF stealth fighters tucked away in secret underground bases, far from the prying eyes of spy satellites (I read this on a pakitani forum, fyi 😉 ) and then PAF is very secretive about its planes just like its secretive about its long range sams, as u noted above.
Its funny that you have to write this big paragraph. bulkof PAF F-7 airframes are of 90s era. IAF bulk of airframes is 70s era of which 75% is composed of MIGs and Most of it is unpgraded by modern standards. It depends when the aircraft are actually built, upgraded and you cannot compare F-16 life with any aircraft in IAF inventory. It will outlast all of them.
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