We dont need some article to tell how happy the IAF is with the Bison. When pilots describe it as a “relevation”,that says it all.

ofcourse it is revelation when bulk of airforce is composed of 70s era M2K, MIG-29, MIG-23/27 and Su-30K.

Very simple, economics is the key here. PAF does not have the hard cash to go in for the Grippen. This fact can be gauged from the fact that PAF is buying phased out and grounded Mirage IIIs to cannibalize and keep its current fleet of obsolete aircraft airworthy, as even the spares are not in production anymore. No country with hard cash sufficient to buy an aircraft as expensive as the Grippen would be indulging in such measures as the PAF is doing. In fact the Grippen makers offered PAF the grippen and said 40 of these can do the job of the 195 or so Mirage IIIs in service with the PAF, but economics dictate US military aid in the form of F-16s if they ever come by, and no Grippen.

Google for the info on the 40 grippens, you will get it.

It was F-7+Mirages not Mirage alone. Gripen doesnot have the range or payload of F-16 and it adds another engine F404 which is additional maintaince. There is no other single engine fighter like F-16 in the world. Latest versions can go further and lift heavier weopons loads than most twin engine fighters of the world and that includes Rafale, Flankers, F-18, EF etc

This proves my point . No russian cash money is involved in Brahmos and it is Russian product with half Indian name.
http://www.indiadefence.com
AFTER PUTIN –– RUMSFELD TO VISIT

An IDC Analysis (with inputs from Sayan Majumdar)

New Delhi, 05 December 2004

Putin visited Delhi for two days from 03 Dec and signed a series of defence protocols including one providing for an agreement on the key issue of protecting Intellectual Property Rights, in the case of weapon systems produced jointly. The Russians are learning the facts of IPR and they know that the BrahMos and other technologies are exportable so since India and Russia have jointly developed the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile, they must jointly market it in the global Arms Bazaar, protecting the property rights of Russia. In any case India has always had to agree to many Russian demands in the past for its defence spares and line of supply for many future acquistions are tied to Russia. Even the BrahMos missile is 95% Russian and it was the brain child that evolved out of Russian investment from the amount India owes Russia in rupees, and a Task Force is looking into modalities of the balance two years payment. Putin knew he could lay conditions and has tried to keep the Indian defence market in the Russian fold and ward off USA and others. Now Rumsfeld is due in India and he too will try to peddle US hardware

Stop crying wolf please. Since when does the matter of principle come into play with national security concerns. If it were so, then as per your line of reasoning India should not submit a tender for more Mirage 2000s as they are one of its nuke delivery platforms!!
The only reason India is making noise is because thats what the job of its foreign minister requires, and since no one is really blind to the reality on ground, i doubt the arguments are going to fly anyways.

He is referring to principles of US not of France. he does not know that F-16 is already cleared from Pentagon. Only Financing of the deal is still to be sort out.

From Pakdef.info

ARMAMENT: General Electric M61 A1 20 mm multibarrel cannon in the port side wing/body fairing, equipped with a General Electric ammunition handing system and a `snapshoot’ gunsight (part of the head-up display system) and 515 rounds of ammunition. There is a mounting for an air-to-air missile at each wingtip, one underfuselage centreline hardpoint, and six underwing hardpoints for additional stores. For manoeuvring flight at 5.5 g the underfuselage station is stressed for a load of up to 1,000 kg (2,200 lb), the two inboard underwing stations for 2,041 kg (4,500 lb) each, the two centre underwing stations for 1,587 kg (3,500 lb) each, the two outboard underwing stations for 318 kg (700 lb) each, and the two wingtip stations for 193 kg (425 lb) each. For manoeuvring flight at 9 g the underfuselage station is stressed for a load of up to 544 kg (1,200 lb), the two inboard underwing stations for 1,134 kg (2,500 lb) each, the two centre underwing stations for 907 kg (2,000 lb) each, the two outboard underwing stations for 204 kg (450 lb) each, and the two wingtip stations for 193 kg (425 lb) each. There are mounting provisions on each side of the inlet shoulder for the specific carriage of sensor pods (electro-optical, FLIR, and so on); each of these stations is stressed for 408 kg (900 lb) at 5.5 g, and 250 kg (550 lb) at 9 g. Typical stores loads can include two wingtip-mounted AIM-9J/L Sidewinders, with up to four more on the outer underwing stations;

Here’s a thought-do you think the US made the F-16s nuclear capable for Pakistan? Or did Pakistan somehow make the needed changes after they were delivered? Being that it was the latter, wouldn’t that make India wary of Pakistan getting more Lawn Darts?

the fact is that US knew that this can be done. So why supply at first place and than sign a deal for another 60 planes in 1989 and one year later embargoed it? So why sign the second one? If the first one was wrong and there was illegal changes?

I guess this settles the avionics suit for JF-17?

By ELAINE GANLEY
.c The Associated Press

PARIS (AP) – Pakistani president Gen. Pervez Musharraf wrapped up a four-continent tour Wednesday, insisting that the most important factor in fighting terrorism is resolving the Palestinian conflict – not capturing Osama bin Laden.

“The Palestinian dispute has a root everywhere,” Musharraf said. “Resolving the Palestinian dispute … will strike at the core of terrorism.”

Musharraf made the remark to a small gathering of journalists and scholars ahead of a meeting and lunch with French President Jacques Chirac. Musharraf’s trip to Paris closed a two-week tour that has taken him to Morocco, Latin America, Washington and London.

The two presidents covered an array of issues, including counterterrorism, the crisis in Kashmir and a special EU trade deal with Pakistan that would be done away with under proposed union reforms.

Also on the agenda was a request by Pakistan for electronic warfare equipment, Musharraf said after meeting with Chirac.

“We are looking for avionics and electronic warfare equipment and other collaboration in the defense field,” he said, noting that Pakistan is developing a jet fighter with China. He did not elaborate, and Chirac did not address reporters.

Pakistan reportedly is also seeking a billion dollars (euros) in military equipment from the United States, including F-16 jet fighters.

Addressing the fight against terrorism, Musharraf said Pakistani authorities do not know bin Laden’s whereabouts.

When asked if the capture of the elusive bin Laden was essential to a victory over terrorism, Musharraf said: “I think the importance is to fight terrorism … not overblow (the importance of) one man.”

“Our army is not running around in the mountains after one man,” he said.

He said later than bin Laden is alive, and that “we don’t know where he is since many months.”

But “if he falls in the way (of Pakistan’s terror offensive) he is going to be eliminated,” Musharraf said.

Throughout his tour, Musharraf has stressed his commitment to battling terrorism. He said Monday in London that Pakistan has “broken the back” of the al-Qaida terror network blamed for the Sept. 11 attacks.

The army has eliminated the network from five key valleys, he said in Paris, adding: “I’m very sure they cease to exist as a homogenous body with a proper command and control.”

Musharraf has stressed that causes of terrorism – poverty, illiteracy and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict – must be addressed.

“The root to fighting extremism, I feel, is job creation and poverty alleviation and we are looking for French support,” he said.

Settling the Palestinian dispute is “no doubt” the key, Musharraf said.

“The resolution of the Palestinian dispute will create effects everywhere,” he said, adding he believes that both the Palestinian conflict and the dispute over Kashmir are “ripe” for a solution.

Pakistan and India have recently moved to solve the conflict in Kashmir. A 14-year-old insurgency in the Himalayan region has claimed more than 66,000 lives and dangerously strained ties with India.

Musharraf said that if Pakistan and India fail in their efforts to resolve the crisis, he would like a multilateral effort to follow up. “This is the last chance we’re giving to a bilateral” effort, he said.

Musharraf also said Chirac offered support in Pakistan’s effort to lobby the European Union for special export privileges that Pakistan risks losing under an EU reform.

Pakistan’s special EU trade status – accorded as a compensation for its fight against drugs – has allowed 70 percent of the products exported by the country to the union to enter the bloc duty free since 2002. That would be done away with in a reform that could be in place next year, and Pakistan is pushing for the special ranking on the basis of its fight against terrorism.

Under the old system, one million people benefited and 200,000 jobs were created, Pakistani Commerce Minister Humayun Akhtar said.

In 2003, bilateral trade between France and Pakistan was worth US$500 million, according to Pakistan.

Meanwhile, Musharraf, who seized power in a bloodless coup in 1999, clearly confirmed that he would maintain his double role as chief of state and army chief until 2007, despite past pledges to stand down as army chief by Dec. 31.

He suggested in London that he would keep wearing both hats, and in Paris, asked if this would be so, he replied, “Yes.”

French weopons are good. It puts another hole in those theories that because a certain country (In reality cannot sign for submarines in last 10 years)buy more so France will not sell to PAF. 😀

Therin lies the dilemma my friend….

There is no dilema. IF Hawkeye 2000 offer is real. PAF will buy it without if and buts. It does not mean they will discard ERIEYE but they will use Indian methods there.(longer negotiation and stretch out delivery time). So PAF will likely want to induct Hawkeye before ERIEYE.