star49The difference that you don’t understand is that India and Russia have a wide-ranging partnership wherein a few extra dollars for one system is a price India would gladly pay for getting other systems which most other countries cannot dream to get from Russia or elsewhere, such as the Akulas, the Backfires, help for ATV, Space programs (ICBM? 😉 )
On the other hand, only secret deals that the US has with Pakistan ionvolve how much the latter gives up on it’s sovereignty, honor and dignity.
Answering a simple question will help you understand.
Is the US working to degrade or enhance Pakistan’s nuclear deterrent?
Hint – Kahuta, Khusab etc. :dev2:
US can neither enhance or degrade Nuke program because they are not related. yOu fire one Nuke from indian side and see how many you get in return 😀
star49LOL. The Mirages came replete with kickbacks- incentive to do things fast, I presume. The MiG’s came with KAB500’s and 250’s. Wheres the proof that the H4 and H2 are in PAF service? More poorly written urdu editorials on the invincible PAF or your “logical deductions”? 😉
Besides your F7PG’s were sitting without radars till recently. Talk about a useless acquisition.
why PAF statement is not enough regarding H-2 and H-4. F-7PG came in 2002 unlike MIG-21 Bis from 1995.
The arjun is not off the shelf and the T90 has been heavily modified to meet Indian requirements. Unlike the T-80, which does not even have thermal imagers per released picturees and merely sports Pakgenous green paint!:D
arjun is still not 60% indiangenous or should i post the article and your face will be red 😀
One? Or Most if not all? Having an experiment with truth are we. Kim Jong Il is the source of high technology to Pak. Wow! 😉
one or show me the evidence of others.
Compared to the rust buckets comprising the PN fleet, the IN subs are a class apart. Besides the Kilos are even Klub capable.
Crying? Hardly. He is making sure that his service gets its share of the substantial funds available. Unlike the PAF chief who crawls from capital to capital with a begging bowl for what else but decade old F16’S? Sheeesh!
PN chief is not crying in public unlike IN chief or should i show it. question is not of PAF F-16 but india whinning about it and thats why PAF wants it to **** of India. PAF chief has publicly declared F-16 bonus not a requirement. hehe
star49I guess you have your conversation with Vladimir Putin to back that claim up? :diablo: :rolleyes:
my sources are very deep. (incase of Russia it has every thing to do with that country.I also know that China is producing alternative engine and go ahead of it was given in April 2001.
star49By which time Pak inducted the oh so modern Mirage 3’s and the ultra super duper F7PG’s with the radar display projected onto the HUD. Of course, lets not even mention the PAF’s awe inspiring induction of BVR weaponry during the same time. Right?
those Mirages were completed within 5 years. they didnot took 10 years to complete. where is H-2 and H-4 range PGMs with your MiGs
Buying off the shelf items does not take much effort.
Both T-90 and arjun is off the shelf but induction is very slow.
Bonzer for North Korea. And Pak is hardly “far ahead”.
PA has 7 or 8 kind of BMs. It doesnot matter if one of it is from NK.
LOL. The Kilo class subs have been extensively modernised, ditto for the HDW Type 209’s. With barely 3 Agostas in the works, you are preening and strutting around as if the PN had the entire US SSBN fleet. :rolleyes:
Old submarines are piece of junk. IN has no choice but upgrade. just like its chief is publicly crying.
star49May I suggest you look at the Indian context. India wanted the Mirages for the Strategic Forces Command to be set up.
And that definitely does imply a nuclear role.
my question is not about Mirage but about Gripen that it is also as capable.
“May be”, “should be”, “will be”, “I wish”,” I hope”…
Your convoluted explanation is a bigger joke than the 80% thing! We are talking of an a/c design with its avionics undecided, its powerplant in doubt and its compared to the combat tested F16? Sheesh. And we are to take your propoganda seriously? :rolleyes:
70 to 85% figure is given from official sources in Newspaper. It is not maybe or should be. there is no indication from any source that Gripen=LCA :rolleyes:
star49So? Thats the production run. The fact remains that India makes big ticket purchases. Unlike certain other nations which Arshad conveniently forgot to mention. 😉
longer time frame makes big deal smaller. just like MIG-21 upgrade. 60 aircraft took almost a decade. PA T-80/AK are far ahead in production and so is the billistic missile component and so is Augusta-90B. India has only left over submarines from soviet era.
star49Sure, like the 50+140 Su30 MKI’s, the 310 T90S’s with 1000 more lic produced, the Gorshkovs, the Krivaks, the Hawks, the 19 LLTR’s, the Multiple squadrons of UAV’s….sure, most countries would take an Indian RFP lightly. :rolleyes:
You should put time period of these purchases. MKI deal signed in 1996 will run well into 2020.
star49The IAF initially asked for the Mirage 2000’s to fulfill a strategic role. That implies nuclear use.
How is Stratgic equal to Nuclear? Stragice world is used in alot of contexts like long range.
Not quite. The joke of the century is the FC1 being 80% of the F16. 😉
FC-1 may be 70% to 85% of F-16 ranging from Strike to Air interceptor role. But they called it medium tech relative to new F-16. So ever thing makes sense unlike LCA=Gripen
star49The best option
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findPage.do?dsp=fec&prfr=false&ci=15058&sc=400&ti=&mm=&dd=&yy=&cpi=&bs=&es=&fti=&rsbci=15058&rsbi=
Features
Forebody Strakes
The strakes increase lift and directional control at higher angles of attack.
Fixed, Underneath Inlet
A uniquely shaped fixed inlet, with no moving parts, provides smooth airflow to the engine at extreme angles of attack.
M61 Gun
This reliable U.S. standard 20mm gun fires 6,000 rounds per minute.
Maneuvering Leading-Edge Flaps
Automatic flap control provides optimum maneuvering in all conditions.
Air Refueling Receptacle
This receptacle allows refueling using boom-type tankers.
Jet Fuel Starter
A jet fuel starter provides self-start capability and assisted in-flight restart.
Single Vertical Tail
The F-16’s vertical tail helps provide good directional stability at high angles of attack.
Blended Wing Body
The aircraft’s unique cross section is aerodynamically and volumetrically efficient.
8,000-Hour Service Life
The airframe is designed for 8,000 hours of operation (more than 26 years of service at 25 flight hours/month) without a depot-level inspection or overhaul.
Fly-by-Wire Flight Control System
The F-16’s fly-by-wire system has electronic flight control system with angle of attack and g limiting. This allows the pilot to aggressively maneuver the aircraft without worry of overstress or departure from controlled flight.
Stores Carriage Capability
The current Block 50 F-16 can carry up to 22,000 pounds of weapons, electronic countermeasures, sensor pods, and external fuel tanks on 11 store stations. With full internal fuel, it carries more than 15,500 pounds of external stores at its maximum takeoff gross weight. The Block 60 version will have an even larger load capacity.
Two-Seat “Special Missions” Version
The independent system operator station provides increased effectiveness in night/adverse weather, high-threat and special system missions. This version also facilitates operational training.
Dorsal Compartment
This compartment adds 30 cubic feet for more avionics with only small increases in weight and drag.
On-Board Oxygen Generation System (OBOGS)
This system eliminates liquid oxygen servicing requirements.
Drag Chute
The drag chute decreases stopping distances for short field operations, poor braking conditions, and emergencies. It also reduces brake wear.
600-Gallon Fuel Tanks
Larger tanks increase range/persistence over the standard 370-gallon tanks without increasing flight limitations. These fuel tanks contain single-point selectable fill capability.
Conformal Fuel Tanks
Use of conformal fuel tanks (CFTs) extends the F-16’s effective mission range/loiter time up to 50 percent, depending on the mission profile. CFTs can be used for both air-to-ground and air-to-air missions. They can be easily removed. They also increase weapon payloads by freeing-up additional store stations.
Data Link
Link-16 or other data link systems receive off-board intelligence and control information and allow the aircraft to exchange information with other aircraft using a dedicated system.
NVIS-Compatible Night Cockpit and External Lighting
This special lighting is compatible with night vision goggles.
Helmet-Mounted Displays
These systems provide high off-boresight cueing of weapons and sensors and improved pilot situational awareness with flight information and reverse cueing of tracked targets.
Color Camera/Video Recorder
This equipment provides color three-source video recording for two to six hours.
Advanced IFF (APX-109+/113)
This Identify Friend or Foe (IFF) equipment combines transponder and interrogator functions for electronic identification.
HF Radio (ARC-190/200)
Long-range communications are provided by this high-frequency radio.
UHF/VHF Radio (ARC-210)
All radio communications are provided in this single unit.
Improved Data Modem
This modem provides data-link communications using existing radios.
Embedded GPS/INS
By combining a global positioning system with a ring laser gyro inertial navigation system, pilots have more reliable, precision navigation.
Targeting Pods (LANTIRN, Sharpshooter, ATLIS II, Litening II)
These pods provide standoff target identification, attack and assessment, forward-looking infrared or electro-optical auto tracker and laser designation for laser-guided bombs.
Navigation Pods (LANTIRN, Pathfinder, RUBIS, ATLANTIC, Litening II)
These pods provide an open night window for accurate visual weapon delivery. LANTIRN also has fully automatic terrain-following radar.
Antiradiation Targeting Pod
The ASQ-213 HARM targeting system provides a robust lethal suppression of enemy air defense capability.
Reconnaissance Pods
A variety of reconnaissance pods are available. The latest have digital day/night sensors.
Internalized Forward-Looking Infrared (FLIR) System
Incorporating a FLIR/laser system in the nose of the F-16 improves weight, drag, and viewing angles versus pods. It also provides infrared search and track capabilities. A small pod on the inlet contains the targeting sensors, and the rest of the equipment is internally located.
Electronic Warfare Systems
The F-16 offers a wide selection of threat warning receivers (ALR-69, ALR-56M, Carapace SPS-3000 RWR), chaff/flare dispensers (ALE-40, ALE-47, Terma EWMS), electronic countermeasures equipment pods (ALQ-131 and ALQ-184), internal systems (ALQ-165 ASPJ, ALQ-178, EWS 16/Carapace, ASPIS), and towed decoy pylons (ALE-50).
Increased Chaff/Flare Dispensers
These dispensers increase protection. Options include internal or pylon-mounted.
Short-Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AIM-9, Magic II, ASRAAM)
These missiles provide all-aspect dogfight capability.
High Off-Boresight Infrared Air-to-Air Missiles
(AIM-9X, Python IV, AIM-132 ASRAAM, IRIS-T)
These new-generation, highly agile, short-range missiles allow high off-boresight launches using cueing sensors.
Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AIM-7, Sky Flash, AIM-120)
These missiles provide standoff, all-weather intercept capability.
Antiship Missiles (AGM-119, AGM-84, AGM-65G)
Antiship missiles provide standoff antiship capability in different environmental conditions.
Precision Weapons (AGM-65 Maverick, Paveway Laser-Guided Bombs, GBU-15)
These weapons provide high lethality with standoff distances.
Wind-Corrected Munitions Dispenser Weapons (CBU-103, -104, -105)
These weapons provide accurate, multiple-kill capability from high-altitude release.
All-Weather Standoff Weapons
(GBU-31/32 JDAM, AGM-154 JSOW, AGM-158 JASSM, AGM-142 Popeye II)
These weapons provide precision capability with GPS guidance.
These attributes translate into high performance, pilot confidence and in-commission rates, low operating and support costs, and excellent safety. Future engine plans include improvements to thrust, reliability, maintainability, and signature. Potential exists for adding a thrust-vectoring nozzle integrated with the flight control system.
star49“From where did you learn that Gripen is not as effective as M2K-5 in Nuclear Strike or tactical strike? ”
Do you ONLY reply to posts or you reply to a thread.. read above posts.. previous 2 pages too.. Sweds will throw out IAF request, the moment they get a hint that it will be used for nuke delivery.. blah blah blah..
And talking of F-16’s please think of the context.. the versions etc.. etc..
Anyway read my post on the first page regarding all this RFP etc..
Nuclear use is BR speculation. There is no indication of Special Nuclear role. and what about this whole Licensing and Indiangenization. and how can any prevent an aircraft from using for that role during time of war?
star49FC-1 engine is and will be RD-93. It is just an empty statment ahead of indian visit to gain some contacts. Russia will repeat these statement untill FC-1 engine deal is signed some time next year by that time it would have cough up Indian contracts.
star49Why is it that every new deal is seen as a slap on the LCA program? Just because LCA is local IAF will not induct any other aircraft in its inventory? And if it does then it automatically means the LCA is in trouble :rolleyes:
LCA is supposed to fill a set role in IAF doctrine. Now clearly it is not a panacea for all ills. The Gripen is NOT coming. Some thick heads never seem to get their way around this. The IAF has already stated its requirements for 126 M2K5s for supplement the increase in squadrons and improve tactical nuke delivary capabilities. Gripen does not fill those requirements. Futhurmore LCA fills that same role that Gripen does and both are on par in terms of capabilities.
With every purchase the GOI/MOD have to be satisfied that other options were looked into. The policy has been the same since the 50s. It is no different today.If it helps some people to think in some other context then try looking at the PAF F16/FC1 deal. Why bother with the same platforms for the same roles again? Does it mean FC1 is useless? No. It just means that given the scope of things one aircraft not considered sufficient even if it fills the role perfectly.
From where did you learn that Gripen is not as effective as M2K-5 in Nuclear Strike or tactical strike? Gripen design allows CFT and new powerful engine in future or IAF wants aircraft for the past?
LCA at par with Gripen. This must be the joke of the century.
And how is FC-1=F-16. Just go to LM website F-16 can lift 10 tons of Weopon, fuel and has 11 hard points which no other single engine aircraft currently has.
star49By that token, we can say that Pakistan has not ordered the FC-1 because no one can show the contract. There is only a rumor of 150 requested. We can alos say that PLAAF has not ordered the FC-1 too. Can you prove otherwise?
Shall we then say that the FC-1 is a plane without orders?
Star49 is a flamer.
Didn’t you see Flight International headline”FC-1 set for PAF in 2005″
Regarding Sign orders. there was agreement between PAC Kamra and Chengdu and remember PAC Kamra is run by PAF so its agreeement is PAF agreement. IT is not a separat organization for placing orders just like there is no sign order of AK tank.
star49http://en.rian.ru/rian/index.cfm?prd_id=160&msg_id=5158357&startrow=11&date=2004-12-01&do_alert=0
Do you know what Russia interests are? Almost $1B for Tu-142, 126 Aircraft contact, Diesel sub contact. Every thing before 2007.
star49The 40 tejas order will be placed formally after weapons testing, PV2 will fly in Feb, obviousy the chief of a Public Sector Undertaking is credible when he says that a deal to be placed by a segment of Indian civil service, aka the airforce, will be placing an order.
What i wrote is simple english. that there is no order in existence so unless it is firmed up there is no point in bringing expectations.
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