star49The Su-27 doesn’t have a 4000km range with weapons, and the figures I’ve seen are 4500km ferry range(with drop tanks), and 3600km on internal fuel.
That is Su-35 and even that is estimated figures. Su-27SM use salut FM engines.
I won’t argue that the Flanker is superior the the F-15E in ACM, but it doesn’t compare in the A2G role.
Flanker can do BVR and 3*1500kg weopons. Flanker can carry 6 *Mach3 200Km class antiship/Sead weopons. That is critical difference in high threat environment.
star49I think it unlikely they’re going to buy Russian fighters, but that lot haven’t exclusively bought US aircraft.
UK & Italy have built their own, & co-operated with other European countries to build fighters.
Australia, Denmark Israel & Singapore have bought British, French or Swedish fighters. Going back to the 1950s, Canada built some of its own, & the Netherlands bought British.Include non-fighter aircraft, & it gets more complicated still.
It is called institutional inertia to switch from one kind to another kind of equipment. Credit crunch has led countries like Taiwan/SKorea/Turkey to seek business in Russia. I would not be surprized in 3 to 5 year time they would start buying Russian equipment.
star49It will be interesting to see how close that figure is to the actual figure due to the economic situation that is affecting the global market-
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/600/42/371377.htm
“Troubles in the U.S. financial sector have spilled over into Russian markets, hitting banking shares and stocks more broadly, and making it virtually impossible for highly leveraged companies to secure funds abroad to refinance debts.”
“His comments came as VTB Bank Europe said Russian manufacturing shrank for a second month in September, the first back-to-back contraction since November 1998.
Russia’s problems were accelerated by its war in Georgia, a slump in commodity prices and capital flight, which BNP Paribas has estimated at $57 billion in the period from Aug. 8 to Sept. 19.”
” The ruble, which fell against the dollar for a fifth straight day, may strengthen against the dollar-euro basket if the U.S. Senate endorses a modified version of the $700 billion bailout package, said Elisabeth Gruie, an emerging-markets strategist in London at BNP.
But Kudrin said the ruble was unlikely to strengthen from current levels because speculative inflows would abate as oil prices fall, Interfax reported. “
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=aHTfBvXQ1MTM&refer=europe
“The global credit squeeze may shave 1 percentage point off Russian growth next year, Finance Minister Alexei Kudrin said, meaning the economy may expand by as little as 5.7 percent.”
“Russian consumer prices grew an annual 15 percent in August. Inflation may “slightly” exceed 12 percent by the end of the year, said Arkady Dvorkovich, an adviser to President Dmitry Medvedev.”
u fail to mention that less than 1% of Russian population participates in Stock market compared to 50 to 60% in Western countries. and 5.7% is real GDP growth rate. In dollar terms it is more like 20 to 25%.Despite World economic collapse. Russian reserves are still rising
http://www.cbr.ru/eng/pwe.aspx?file=/eng/press/081002_111020eng_res.htm
The External and Public Relations Department of the Bank of Russia announces that the Russia’s international reserves equalled $562.8 bn. as of September 26, 2008, against $559.4 bn. as of September 19, 2008.
star49And exactly what are all the areas that the Su-27SM are superior to the F-15E in(i.e. range, payload, avionics, weapon systems, etc…?)
Longer range on internal fuel (4000km), New FBW, more powerful engines, superior acceleration due to less drag of single seat with less weight, widely spaced weopon stations, longer range supersonic weopons, newer IRST, longer range radar. Almost in all categories.
star49Ever herd of F-15E? Even battle tested… You should go back to your Lalaland…
F-15E is not even in Su-27SM class let alone Su-34. Russia hasnt released specification of Su-34 capabilities.
second Su-35 has flown.
http://www.royfc.com/acft_news.html
Sukhoy Brings Second Su-35 into Flight Test ProgramA second flying example of the multirole Su-35 fighter lifted into the air today from the Komsomol’sk-on-Amur Yu. A. Gagarin Aviation Production Association (KnAAPO) in accordance with the flight test program. Various power plant and control system functions were tried out for an hour. The airplane’s stability and control performance and power plant were tested. There were no criticisms of engine, system and equipment operation. Russian Federation honored test pilot Sergey Bogdan piloted the airplane. The Su-35 broke away from the earth under his control for the first time on 19 February of this year. As of today, more than 40 flights have been completed which have confirmed the aircraft’s basic flight performance
star49I don’t think the Russians will ever be able to post a major threat in the Med. They’d have no strategic depth – nowhere to hide, no naval bases to fall back on, no air cover. Even if the RN & USN were kept busy elsewhere, the traditional Med powers (France, Italy & Spain) would seriously maul the Russians. The Russians might stand a chance if they had air and naval bases across the south Mediterranean arc (Algeria, Libya, Syria) and if Turkey gave their fleet safe passage to enter/escape through the Black Sea. Unlikely…
For the Marine Nationale, the first priority would be on re-equiping its underarmed ships. That’s where they’d have the biggest return on investment.
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I dont expect any moblization in EU as it is essentailly either bankrupt or like Turkey completely depended on Russia. And Russia has sufficiently capability to lift sufficient force to North Africa and Middleast and close down the trade.
Offcourse Russia does not release certain weopons to these countries out of good will of EU.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/10/01/europe/EU-Council-of-Europe-Russia.php
Russia escapes sanction at European body
star49EF and F-16 do not surprise me, Su-35 does.
Su-35 should not be surpize as they wont like similar aircraft as Venzuella. maybe PAK-FA
36 Rafale price. i doubt Brazil can afford.
star49Nice one … 😀 I think the times when China will start “copying” anything Russian after its first flight in Russia are finally over ! :diablo:
Let’s but these bad jokes beside … just received the recent AIR International issue with the Su-34 article !
Just the comparison of the individual delivery dates of each Su-27IB/-34 makes me fear a very, very, very slow progress on the T-50’s delivery.
Deino
Dont assume anything based on Su-34. Russians called it 5th generation aviaiton complex. In the same time period they finished MKI/Su-27SM/Su-35. All three has nothing in commong in terms of engine/Radar/FBW/LCD/fibre optics. While Chinese spent 15 years on J-10 with external help and engines and still it is not Multirole and those was the best times for Chinese economy. Now its down hill from now on. No more big budget on single programes.
star49Funny, what about the Mig-15 in 1950???
Also, clearly the resources for the Flanker and Fulcrum were available in the 70’s and 80’s. PLEASE
If they finished Flankers/Fulcrums in current form. it does not mean that there wasnt limitations on design bureaus of what they can afford to do or manufacturing supply chain allowed them to do.. had the required money. U would have seen very different things in 70-80s.
star49if it has edge against J-10, then how can it be on par with mkk? J-10 crushes mkk in all the PLAAF exercises. Don’t underestimate the plane.
MIG-29K is use advance IRST for silent attack. MKK alteast has the chance of refuse to engage it due to generous fuel capacity. MIG-29K is more multirole it can do both AAM and Antiship/Sead in same operation. So it is more dangerous to both air and surface targets at same time. Only Rafale come close to it but it has poor TWR with current engines, limited fuel capacity and limited size of radar.
star49The Russians had the resources, know how, and help from Germany……..after the end of WWII.
Russians didnot had the resources. There was no external Marshall plan to rebuild the economy from outside. Moreover they were supporting communist movements throughout the third world from Korean war/China to Africa. Resources were not concentrated. Similar is the case with Flanker and other fighters development in early 80s when funds were starved. These were not developed under ideal conditions. for PAK-FA conditions are ideal.
star49Any source for that claim ?
There is extensive use of composites in engines. All in all it will be in same category as MS-21 interms of composites. $3b for composite development
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1246231&highlight=%27composite%27#post1246231
Fifth generation combat aircraft will be made mainly of compositesMOSCOW. May 4 (Interfax-AVN) – Advanced materials are being widely used in the development of advanced combat aircraft, General Director of the Obninsk-based Tekhnologia research and production enterprise Vladimir Vikulin told Interfax.
“The current R&D to increase the application of composites in the advanced frontline aircraft [fifth generation aircraft] may facilitate an increase in the application of composites to 50% or more of the total surface of the aircraft in the future,” he said.
He said his enterprise is working on technologies of producing the fuselage and wing panels from composites for the new Russian fighter designed by the Sukhoi holding.
He said that the application of composites can reduce the weight of an aircraft 20-30%. “In the future more than two thirds of the wings, fuselage and tail section of the aircraft will be made of composites,” he said.
star49I think the point is that nobody knows exactly what the capabilities of the F-22 are(including Sukhoi), so to say matter of factly that another aircraft is superior, is perhaps premature. I have no doubt that the PAK-FA will be an excellent aircraft, but this will be the first production stealth aircraft, Russia has built. I have serious reservations about them surpassing designs based on 30+yrs of experience, on the first attempt. Additionally, Russian avionics while good, are still lagging behind the latest western designs. I suspect the biggest advantage that the PAK-FA will have, will be the price.
Certain things u have to agree. Like computing power and radar performance. Stealth against 70 to 90s radars is practically obsolete against Radars built in 21st century. So PAK-FA naturally has take this into account. like S-500 class radars.
Second precision manufacturing capabilities are way different now.third composite materials. Russia is now spending $3B and 10,000 people to manufacture 21st century composites. Only Japanese had done untill now. PAK-FA is more than 50% by weight composites.
star49:rolleyes:
Thats when u ignore that past 400 years of continous Mathematics/Physica development.
The Su-22 was a developed variant of the Su-17. Comparing the Su-17 to the Su-27 would be more logical. And you’re ignoring the fact that the original T-10 was pretty much a failure and had to be nearly entirely redesigned!
This has the potential to be an interesting discussion as more and more information begins to trickle out, as it invariably will with Russia’s eventual desire to become a major exporter of 5G fighters, so why can’t we keep all of the nationalistic BS, “mine is bigger than yours” comparisons, and “plane X is better because it comes earlier/later and/or is from country A instead of country B” nonsense out of it?
I didnot bring that statment. it is clearly Sukhoi statment they are building plane that is superior right from design stage. And it was Sukhoi statment that they can make Two generation jump in less than 10 years. Su-22 vs Su-27 was example given. it was on http://www.royfc.com site. Now i cannot find it. So i havent make it up unlike others. for export they built Su-35. 5G not many countries can afford and operate nor they want to share. More likely Russians by themselves will operate from foreign bases if there is need for it.
star49The Russians have not had the resources nor have they ever developed a Stealthy 5th Generation Fighter. So, just because the PAK-FA is a later design hardly makes it Superior……..
Russians sent person to space when they were barely out of World War 2 damage. Now they have plenty of money. Infact the richest country on earth.
It is only the Russian who can bring new technologies to world. It is very small project for them in overall context what they are building. Just compare Su-22 to Su-27. In less than 10 years they did it without advance computing and manufacturing technoloigies. In less than 4 years they are going to operationalize 5th generation fighter.
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