How many years to replicate Sizzler? We haven’t been trying to. Like I’ve said several times – if we don’t NEED something we’re not going to build it just because we feel like it. Consider ASALM. It was progressing in testing and then we cancelled it because the cost/benefit wasn’t there. And that proved to be a good call. Sure, NOW it might be useful but for 20+ years Tomahawk has been just fine.

Why u dont need. This sizzler technology has been around long time. whey all of sudden start replicating when it is already inducted to various countries. Very late . Tomhawk is fine for not speed sensitive and no hardened structures.

So? I don’t recall that being a problem so far and the AIM-120D is on the way. Granted it’s not a Phoenix but then if we’d NEEDED it (there’s that word again) we’d have just kept on with the AAM program.

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-152.html

AIM-120D is more in R-77 (project 180) class. U need ultra long range with much higher speeds and long burn time. When one side is clearly have developed and other one just wait decades u lose all the capability and it become costly to restart again.

I must have missed that. Russian fighters are shooting down targets in space now huh? :rolleyes:

MIG-31BM and PAK-FA is clearly designed for that purpose. . Not sure about Su-35.

Uh, you’re aware R-37 weighs about three times as much as an AIM-120D aren’t you? And you won’t be fitting six of THOSE INSIDE PAK-FA.

It is the same weight class like Kh-58 etc. I dont see why 6 cannot be carried internally and we havent seen P-810 missile yet. Likely to lighter materials with more advanced electronics. there is clear need of ultra-long range BVR missile just like hypersonic Ashm. Even India recognize it.

Advocating building walls eh? Don’t worry I’m sure Putin has it in his day planner.

U dont need physical wall when u have modern observation, communication sytem with fast intridiction response time. UAVs/Satellites solved most of problem. They just need to upgrade North Caucaus military district.and it is not flat desert so physical barrier is impossible except for some places.

“Continue”? The ONE they’ve bought in the last ten years was put together out of parts laying around the factory as I recall. Do you have any evidence that suggests they’ve restarted production?

Those 30 or so Production was based on Old doctorine. Now new doctoring from 2010-2020 is going to be implemented and Strategic bomber is of critical importance.

Sweet! I’d love to see Russia spend itself into oblivion again.

It was West that went bankrupt but saved by Asian/OPec surpluses/Outsourcing and it is true even today. Russia have now built unique economic/political systems with new doctorines. Even Eastern EU realizes that economicy dependencies because they depended on bigger EU countries and bigger EU countries inturn depend on Russia. So Russia can continue to deliver Practical threats but otherside cannot.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=awX2gCzY4kO4
Medvedev Tells EU Russia to Hit Back at Hostile Acts
Prime ministers of three eastern European countries — Slovenia, Latvia and the Czech Republic — said today sanctions shouldn’t be imposed

If they are around possibly. They aren’t likely to be.

Why they wouldnt be. Landbased AWACS are bigger Radar size and have more range. so provide better situational awarness.

Of course Russia does. The US does not, it has carriers.

Show me one decent war without Land bases from friendly countries and huge sum built up before invasion. carrier by itself hardly can fight a war against medium size enemy.

They do if you want your hypersonic Flankers and Foxhounds to be able to protect your navy. :rolleyes:

They fly higher and faster and have longer range weopons and range on internal fuel has IRST. Without F-22 no other aircraft can challenge them and there arent that many F-22 and location is known.

Even your magic aircraft need fuel so yeah, tankers matter for Russia. You still didn’t say how many Russia has. So how many do they have?

Why Russia needs tanker for thirld world enemies. It can do without it.

Yeah and the future Death Star the US is building will make those redundant. :rolleyes:

When u put so much money on large ships u have less money left for fighting wars and need to create special budgets for fighting wars. It is bankrupt way of fighting wars.

You want to match up the RN’s training, capability and experience with the Russian Navy’s and you think that Russia would come out on top of that do you. Star our T-class SSN force would be sufficient to remove the Northern Fleet as an effective naval force on its own. Not that its much of one right now. A carrier with a modest airwing both in capabilities and size, one heavyweight cruiser, a handful of DDG’s for ASW/ASuW and a few halfway competent SSNs that may have had half a dozen training sorties between them in the last 3 years!. You think thats something do you?.

so u know all the simulators/training procedure of Russian Navy. Without US. Russia will roll over EU in all aspects of Conventional warfare. Army/Navy/Airforce. There shouldnt be any doubt about that. Russia do regular Naval exercises. Just SCO 2005 with China exercise was big naval. And they dont need that many training like other countries as they have superior training procedures and better learning capabilities than the rest by wide margin.

Back to Star-world we go. When did Yakhont or 34M54E pass IOC in the Russian Navy and what units are they deployed on?. Otherwise yes, I agree, Russian weapons designers have come up with some interesting kit. A point which has utterly no relevence whatsoever to the current situation that exists in the Black Sea.

So they are going to tell what missiles, seeker, software, flight profile in there missiles. some thing is not for export no need for showing. have u seen the weopons with Su-27SM like Su-30MK2/MKI.

Quckly develop countermeasures?. So the Russian Navy is going to go from minimal littoral ASW capabilities in the Black Sea, as it stands, to a complete capability set in a few days is it?. Well, for their sake I hope you are right Star, otherwise if they ‘accidentally’ sink a Turkish vessel assigned to the NATO group then those Turk SSK’s are well within their capabilities to end the Russian Navies presence in the Black Sea!.

u have no idea why ur commenting on these situations. second rate power like Turk will be shaking if Russia turns there guns on them who depends on hands me down weopons and training from some one else. There situation will be no different than Georigans as they are easy target of longer reach weopons of Russia. Just AWACS training with MIG-31 is enough to clean the skies in Black sea. ur losing all ur credibility by making such ridiculous comparisions. Putin clearly know this and so does East Europeans.

Yep as sferrins detailed these were a modified variant that was designated the MA-31. A google search on that desig shoud give you more but, effectively, the rounds provided were very poor quality examples of the basic Kh-31 airframe – possibly built that way deliberately.

Certainly the test serials employing MA-31 proved largely valueless as the missiles performance could never be guaranteed. At one point the USN had to go to the extremes of setting up a Q-4 drone as the release platform as the range performance had proven so poor that, to get a release at a range where the drone would actually reach the target, the drone had to be released closer to the defending ship than was permitted from a manned aircraft.

There is big difference between $50m dollar export contract and $2B dollar export contract. There is big difference in among export customers (like China/India/US) and domestic versions.
If they dont know exact profile by merely stating fly no more than 10m.

Aug. 28 (Bloomberg) — Alliant Techsystems Inc., the largest
maker of solid rocket motors, will produce at least 50 supersonic
targets for the U.S. Navy to test defenses against the Sizzler,
China’s most capable anti-ship missile, a service official said.
The Navy awarded Alliant the initial $97 million development
contract for the Multi-Stage Supersonic Target last week, which
includes targets for seven tests. It also will get the production
contract as of 2013, Captain Pat Buckley, the Navy’s program
manager for targets and decoys, said in an interview today.
Alliant was selected over competitors including Raytheon Co.
and the first target missiles are expected to be delivered in
2014, Buckley said. Minneapolis-based Alliant sees the potential
to build as many as 200 missiles over a decade at a cost of about
$2 million each, Jack Cronin, its president of mission systems,
said in an interview today.
“We are hoping that ATK and their team will develop a
product that meets our requirements at the lowest possible
cost,” Buckley said.
China purchased the Sizzler from Russia and already has
deployed it on at least eight Kilo-class diesel submarines, which
also were bought from Russia, the Pentagon said in its report on
the Chinese military released March 3.
The Sizzler is one of the “Threat D” family of anti-ship
missiles the Alliant effort will focus on, Buckley said. The
Sizzler flies at subsonic speeds until within 10 nautical miles
of a target. It then releases a rocket-propelled warhead that
accelerates to three times the speed of sound, flying no more
than 10 meters (33 feet) above sea level, making it difficult to
defend against.

A Moving Target

The missiles Alliant is building will give the Navy
supersonic targets to try to track and shoot down.
Buckley said he does not yet have an estimate yet for the
production contract’s eventual value but the plan would be to
build 10 target missiles a year for five years. The final number
to be produced is “totally unknown at this time” and will be
determined based on the military’s needs. The number of 50 “was
a ballpark swag” based on the test plans for vessels in
development, he said.
“There is a class of extremely advanced cruise missiles
that our ships are going to have to thwart,” Alliant’s Cronin
said. “Right now there is no way to test these ships against the
threats because they are that advanced. This system will more
than do that.”

So?

So they are likely to release weopons before carrier aircraft.

:rolleyes: As long as the target is in range of your land bases. If not you’re SOL. And as long as you have tankers. How many does Russia have in operation? So basically what you’re saying is that as long as the nine or ten Russian surface ships that can fire these uber missiles stay out of harm’s way they’ll be okay? Well I’m all kinds of impressed.

u still need friendly airbases/airspace clearance for action against even a third world country. So tankers dont matter. They matter more carrier aircraft but not so for Su-27SM/MIG-31. and future missiles hypersonic missile systems of strategic bombers and Su-34 will make it completely redunt

Who said they were?

For Russians they are cheap to develop so dont mind sharing technology with India/China for Brahmos/Kh-31 as they can develop newer versions faster and cheaper without fear of technlogy falling out.

Yeah, that’s why we’re buying 5000+ JASSMs. :rolleyes:

JASSM is more in Kh-59MK2 class than Brahmos/klubir/Sizzler. I will not put in newer Kh-58E class. Dont confuse russian missile ranges with MTCR regulation in mind.
U can see the price. it is way more than any conventional missile system and that is Russian pricing. So for mass producing this kind of weopon cheaply in West is practically hopeless.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Klub.html
On 06 July 2006, the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) approved the purchase of 28 Klub-S (3M-14E variant) land-attack cruise missiles at a cost of USD $184 million.

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68832&highlight=club&page=3
Mazurkevich, who heads international cooperation department of the Russian defence ministry, said that one of the reasons for not Russia not keen to export this weapon, “highly lethal for potential enemies”, is that its range could be easily extended from the current 300 km, allowed under Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR).
“We are not worried about it as we have nuclear weapons, but this (unauthorised extension of range) may pose threat not only to India but also to our other friends and allies,” Mazurkevich underscored. He said Brahmos is initially an anti-ship cruise missile and Russia is closely cooperating with India in the development of its other variants including land and air based.
“Coupled with Sukhoi Su-30MKI it makes a highly potent weapon system,” General Mazurkevich said.

However, the trial of this system requires heavy financing and Russia would help India in this, he said.

“Two-three trials of Brahmos air force version would equal the cost of a SU-30MKI fighter, but we have expertise, how to do this at much lesser cost,” Mazurkevich said adding that “unveiling and enhancing” the hidden potential of new weapon systems like Brahmos cruise missiles, Su-30MKI fighters and T-90S main battle tanks would be one of the thrust areas Indo-Russian military-to-military cooperation

Dec 27, 2003,The Economic Times)
A. Shivathanu Pillai, chief controller (R&D), DRDO and BrahMos Aerospace CEO-cum-MD, told The Times of India on Thursday that with the successful development and trials of the anti-ship version, BrahMos is now ready for production. “We’ve completed six successful tests from mobile autonomous launcher and warship to sea targets. The results of land-to-ship missions are remarkable. BrahMos warhead can hit the target nine times more powerful than a subsonic-class cruise missile,” Pillai said
BrahMos will certainly be a force multiplier to the navies of India and Russia and the results confirm it as a superior lethal weapon available in the world today. With a range restricted to 290 km due to control regimes, BrahMos has the most-advanced guidance system of Indi an origin, that would give the Navy an edge over others

Who the hell said anything about supersonic bombers?

Maintaining 200 supersonic bomber is alot more costly than subsonic.

That’s because that’s all we’ve needed. And a missile that you can put dozens at a time of on scores of different platforms is a HELL of a lot more useful than something that requires a ship class of it’s own.

All version of Brahmos are developed from Air/Land/Naval at fraction of cost to what JASSM/Tomhawk/Harpoon etc. It is cost vs capability. Russian R&D can produce more with less and end product is more effective through various iteration.

WTF are you talking about? Who said anything about developement costs? Do you even read what you’re typing?

It is the cost that constrained alot of things.