LOL. Those are the exactly same weights for Su-30MKI and MKK.

At least T-90 has more changes than Su-35 from Su-27.

Su-35 maximum is 34.5 vs 38.8 for MK2 but it has 11.5 tons internal fuel capacity and 14 stations (2 ECM+12weopons) so how it is same weight structure as MK2. I am not even going into 3D TVC system.

That’s reported by Chinese media. FC-1 is at least 6000 hours. L-15 is 10 to 12,000 hours.

FC-1 does not have 6000hrs and L-15 is paper specification.

You really have a fantasy notion of Russian semiconductors, which thankfully is not shared by the rest of the world.

Not shared by the world.? Just look at Size of IPO of sitronics and R&D vs any fab manufacturer of Taiwn.

LOL. Production of J-11As is limited by the supply and production of engines and avionics from the Russians, which are often rejected by the Chinese because of quality issues. Thus these components have to be rebuilt and resend until they meet standards. The Chinese cannot make the planes without the Russians filling the other 20%. Which is why in the J-11B, they went 100%.

Pure assumption. so how come India is satisfied now with all the qualities. Indian takes even the smallest quality and delay issue.

Don’t throw your hot air until they are actually built and delivered.

now u will start eating ur own words about Two being delivered?. the rest of issue is the applicaiton of $250m from MIG-29 contract money to flanker contract.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080515/107429570-print.html
The aircraft were eventually returned to Russia in April this year and may be put in service with the Russian Air Force after additional testing.

Under a 2006 contract, worth about $2.5 billion, the Irkut corporation is supposed to deliver a total of 28 Su-30MKA fighters to Algeria until 2010. The company has supplied six aircraft so far.

“If a contract for additional aircraft is signed, we will start deliveries in 2011, following the completion of deliveries under the current contract in 2010,” Irkut president Oleg Demchenko said

As for LENOVO, which is world’s 3rd largest PC manufacturer, it has a lot of subcontractors in China that provides components. LCDs are made in China. Keyboards are made in China. China has advanced wave soldering used on motherboards, and the ability to make quality motherboards is fundamental to reliable electronics from celphones to PCs. Does Russia make export quality motherboards? Don’t give me the bull about Russia only making top end military stuff. In electronics, if you don’t have the quality controls to do the high quality consumer stuff, you don’t have what it takes to do the military level. It goes from the bottom up. China has 25% of the world market in 2006—Greater China, with Taiwan and HK, already constitutes 33% of the world’s market by 2005 (Pricewaterhouse Coopers). What share does Russia have?

Lenovo is biggest assembler without any intellectual property of its own. thats why it cannot develop anything else. Mikron and sitronics are full service research firms with supplier to European customers in vast telecommunication area. they can make electronic passport and smart cards.
quality motherboards? first try to put Avionics in that ARJ-21. and it is not even high end airplane like A-380 avionics.
ur the one claiming that China will put fighter AESA ahead of Russia?. Russian can not only demonstrate fully functional AESA at Airshow but can also transfer its technology. You just wait one to two years more and see the end result of Russia great leap forward due to money on acquistion and its own R&D. ur time was in the 90s. u can no longer catch up. It is just one subsidiary of Sitronics have 70% staff in science.

http://www.intracom-telecom.com/en/company/profile/intracom_telecom_glance.htm
Since June 2006, INTRACOM TELECOM has been controlled by JSC SITRONICS (Russia) with 51%
Personnel 2,671 (including subsidiaries). Scientific staff 70%
Significant international activity: exports >56% of annual sales; sales to 60 countries subsidiaries in 14 countries; personnel abroad (38%)
Significant R&D investment: 6-8% of annual revenues. Among the EU leaders in R&D

..referring to the the semiconductor..I’m well aware of the level of china in aviation and aerospace. :rolleyes:

Semiconductors? than why is ARJ-21 using complete foreign avionics suite. Not a single thing Chinese and that you claim ur ahead of Russian one or two generation? they used Sukhoi SSJ with light weight thales suite but that decision was taken 5 years ago.

Saifun is a memory maker, nothing to do with intel. Stop posting urelated stuff..

That low end stuff is 1~2 generation ahead of what Russia has. :p

So does Infenon also memory maker. My laptop memory is assembled from infenon in China. u cannot show me the origin of Fab equipment. It isnot process but equipment to implement the process that matters. It cost $2B just to purchase that equipment.

AVL is an expert in powertrain technology.The company has helped BMW, Toyota and many others..duh :rolleyes:

what about first generaton Seat (Spanish Volkswagen) that is Cherry origin and than again help from AVL to improve it and that only for car maker in China. I am sure Chinese will improve its own humwee after assembling this one.

Russia to supply about 100 Tigr special police cross-country vehicles to China

MOSCOW. May 20 (Interfax-AVN) – Russia is to supply about 100 multi-purpose Tigr vehicles, built at the Arzamas machine factory, a division of the Voenno-Promyshlennaya Company, in fulfillment of the two countries’ military-technical cooperation plans, a source in the defense industry of Russia told Interfax-AVN.

“Under the agreement singed in 2007 between China and the factory, Russia is to supply about a hundred Tigr vehicles, which are Russia’s most formidable all-road personnel carriers featuring armor protection of the fifth category of the six possible,” he said, noting that the first batch of vehicles, designed for special police role and capable of carrying nine personnel, will be dispatched to China in early June.

“The first batch of Tigrs will be delivered assembled, while the rest will be shipped as complete sets to be assembled at Chinese factories under the agreement,” the source added, refusing to disclose information about the contract price.

Russia strong! 😀

Show me an article where a single piece of Industrial machinery or technoglogy is imported from China to Russia. Russia is behind than Germany and thats where they are concentrating.
All the money that you are spending on R&D is not actuall R&D but money spent on copying because the net result is zero. If u can make fab equipment u wont need this kind of help.

http://news.finance.ua/en/toplist/~/1/3/26563
The fact the that the Antonov design bureau has helped the Chinese to design the ARJ21 mid-haul aircraft, a would-be competition to An-148, shows that Antonov is certain of its own strength. Balabuyev has said that the Ukrainian aircraft will fly at a higher altitude and will have a number of stronger features. The market is big enough anyway. Balabuyev told the president of the AVIC-1 [Aviation Industry of China No 1] Chinese company which is going to build ARJ21 that there are a lot of places in China where high-altitude planes are needed, so the Chinese will come to buy the Ukrainian aircraft, while the Ukrainians will not need the Chinese model.

Balabuyev often repeats that planes do not come out of eggs like chickens, but are made in creative pain and effort. One can only hope that the result of such efforts by the Antonov design bureau will be a new wonderful plane – the new Ukrainian Globemaster

http://www.kommersant.com/p-10937/An-148_sold_Russia/
New An-148s will be assembled in Russia and the cost of Russia’s components will cover roughly 69 percent of the price. So, of $200-million budget of the contract, Ukraine will get less than $60 million.

Its true it can be beaten, but it was only done the once and as far as most are concerned once is not a capability, more of a bit of good luck. Now if they had taken down three, four, five stealth fighters then i dont think there would be any doubt that yes they have a capability to shoot down stealth jets but only shooting down one, thats not exactly impressive considering the rest of them are roaming your airspace unmolested attacking targets at will.

I think many get caught up too easily boasting about suppossed serbian victorys without really thinking about it, i mean ok they took a few jets down including one stealth jet but is that really anything great? did it stop them getting owned – no of course not they still lost badly. Edit: to twist this a bit, imagine if here in the UK we had been under attack from Russian air forces for the last month but had only managed to shoot down one or two flankers while their planes continued to molest our country un-phased each and evry day, i certainly wouldnt be cheering that we are beating them by any means, infact i’d be positivily gutted. As i would have been if i were a serb during thier conflict.

If u remove Nuclear weopons from equation. than Ruaf can practically achieve the same result as Nato vs Serbia. what is RAF most composed of. couple of squardons of short range EF/Tornados and some harriers. Ruaf will overhelm it with long range crusie missile strikes from bombers. and the rest of job will be done by superfast high flying MIG-31 with much longer range missiles than what RAF can bring it. Now SU-27SM has range of 4000KM. give it one refueling and it will be 5600KM. I am sure that 2 or 4 Su-34 will also make a difference.

Russia is way ahead of china in semiconductor?? What are you smoking?:D

LOL From his own link..they don’t even have a 90nm yet and the AMD fab-30 is only 0.13 micron capable..baha

LOL

SMIC provides 90-nm know-how to Israel’s Saifun Semiconductor
http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=200001825

65-45 nm nodes and beyond
Advanced Micro-Fabrication Equipment Inc. (AMEC)
http://www.semiconductor.net/article/CA6509266.html?industryid=47298&nid=3573

are they advance lithography manufacturer or just $10 chip manufacturers? and most of Russian chip manufacturing is to military projects so it is not count as commerical.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_10/b3873062.htm?chan=search
Want Innovation? Hire A Russian
Few companies have made a bigger splash in global markets in recent years than Samsung Electronics Co. The South Korean company has blasted past its Japanese and U.S. competitors to take a big share of the international electronics and mobile-phone markets. Last year it boasted profits of $5.1 billion on revenues of $37 billion. And one key to Samsung’s success has a surprising address: 1 Bolshoi Gnezdnikovsky Lane, Suite 300, in Moscow

to further clarify point. u need to have full research and development cycle. u just cant depend on EU industrail machinery to implement a process.

http://www.mikron.ru
Basic directions of research and developments by joint stock company “[NIIME] and of microns”:

Study and the development of the new technologies of production IS;
Study and the development of the new element base of micro- and of nano-electronics;
Development and the mastery of the new technologies of designing IS;
Development of specialized software;
Development and the mastery of the technology of the preparation of information for preparing the phototemplates in the guarantee of production in the regime Of foundry;
Development of technological equipment.
Development of the new technologies of production IS

Mastery of the technology CMOS – complementary metal oxide semiconductor + OF EEPROM 0,18 m (development of technology CMOS – complementary metal oxide semiconductor 0,18 m)
Development of technology 0,13 m CMOS – complementary metal oxide semiconductor, CMOS – complementary metal oxide semiconductor + OF EEPROM
Technology of radiation-resistant CMOS – complementary metal oxide semiconductor -[KNi] IS 0,25 – 0,18 m
Development of the technology of the production OF SHF [BiKMOP] IS (0,25 m) on the basis of the heterostructures Of siGe
Development and the mastery of the methods of instrument- technological simulation in the process of development of the new technologies

Study and the development of new element base of micro- and nano-electronics

Element base of nano-electronics:

CMOS – complementary metal oxide semiconductor (CMOS – complementary metal oxide semiconductor + OF EEPROM) of 90 nm – transistors, the elements of the energy-independent memory.
Field emissive nanos-structure.
Element base of radiation-resistant CMOS – complementary metal oxide semiconductor VLSI on the basis of structures “silicon on the insulator”.
Element base OF SHF [BiKMOP] VLSI on the basis of heterostructures “silicon – germanium”.
Mastery of the methods of the instrument- technological simulation of new element base.

Development of the element base of the field emissive of micro -[nanoelektroniki] ([PEM])

— The transport of electrons ballistic, t [k] is achieved in the vacuum; therefore there are no speed losses and power with the collisions in the transport medium.
— High temperature durability. Semiconductors become insulators at very low temperatures and conductors at comparatively high temperatures;
— High radiation durability. In the semiconductors the radiation disturbances of crystal lattice lead to the appearance of random signals and degradation of characteristics.
Development and the mastery of the technologies of designing IS

Mastery and the adaptation Of design Of kit on the technology 0,18 m:
— Processing and the modification of library;
— Development of new [SF]- blocks (OZU, PZU, interfaces the rest)
Development new IS:
— PVD of the new generation;
— SIM- map;
— Transport maps;
— [SOZU] 4 of 16 M.
Development and the mastery of the technology of the preparation of information for preparing the phototemplates in the guarantee of production in the regime Of foundry:
— Design of phototemplates;
— Processing topological information, including phase correction and correction of optical proximity effect.
Development of specialized software and systems of the cryptographic protection of information.

Build it ON for the micro-controllers of the [smart]- maps:
— Operating system BIS for PVD;
— Operating system BIS for the Sym- maps;
— Universal OS.
Firmware complexes of the cryptographic protection of the information:
— Coding according to GOST 28147;
— Coding on the International standards AES, RSA;
— Organization [ETSP] (electronic digital signature

No its kind of like T-90 getting a new number despite being a derivate of the T-72. Kind of like Su-30/33/35/37, even though its all just Su-27. In fact, the RuAF still officially uses the Su-27 label, and does not recognize whatever adhoc names Sukhoi makes.

so why they are using T-90 label when they are not recognizing any Sukhoi lablels?

Su-35 lighter than any other Flanker? Show proof of that. Show proof that it carries 11.5 tons internally. It got an opening bay like F-22?

it is clearly on Knaapo page. weights are there 34.5tons maxiumum vs 38.8 for MK2 but MK2 does not have the phased array radar and TVC engine. and it is 4++ not F-22 class.

Hard points are not hard to add upon a wing. After all, the Chinese may not have seen the logic of going to 14 points when you already have 12.

where is ur 12 points?

J-11B as a matter of fact, got longer airframe lifetime than Su-35 (10,000 vs. 6000 flight hours) while weighing several hundred pounds lower than an Su-27SK.

10,000hrs. this another speculation from media. u dont have any data. showme link to website. Even FC-1 is at 4000hrs at best. Chinese are not at 6000 interms of multirole fighter. Maybe at trainer at best.

No they are all planning to go to 45nm process and as a matter of fact, already producing at 90nm. In Russia you don’t even have 120nm process. You don’t even have 300mm wafers, just 200mm wafers. You don’t even have 1%of the market.

so how is going to sell inside Russia where 50% of defence market is domestic and it is pretty big. and infac that Sitronics have billions of dollars acquisition. one of AMD plant completely dimanteled from Germany. and several projects with infenon. when Angstrem can buy AMD Fab in 2006 so just think about Mikron and its resouces. Its cash money is right at Intel level.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/20061110024507.html
AMD Sells Chip Equipment to Russian Company.
Russian Angstrem to Acquire AMD’s Fab 30 Equipment
11/10/2006

Lenovo is the third largest customer of Intel, after HP and Dell, and HP and Dell manufacture in China, with LCDs, chips, motherboards made in China.

It is just assembler. nothing to do with producing lithiography machinery for fab. thats Mikron head is in leadership council of Semiconductors.

Stupid. That means all China airframes, using Russian engines and avionics making up the 20%. Which actually pretty much accounts for more than half the J-11s and J-11As.

If it was anywhere 80% in 2004. u would be producing hundreds of J-11s by now.

Which the Chinese have the resources to accomplish, and questionable for the Russian industry.

Chinese have resources but Russia doesnot have.

No two are delivered. Nothing that shows your over a hundred aircraft a year.

Once again, shows nothing to prove your 100 aircraft a year.

six are delivered. and it is 100 hundred aircraft per year. Just Sukhoi RRJ will be 70 alone with 4 prototypes this year. Let see there are 4 prototypes.

You just don’t have the facts to back up your alleged 100 to 200 billion Russian military budget.

so dou think allthose bombers and MIG-31 come back to life with complete it can be done with India or China size budget. Just pay and pension increase is at different level than China/India.

That is the food and energy inflation alone.

good that u have admitted and now also admit there is hundreds of billions of taxpayer subsidgy to keep lid on it.

You are just in denial.

We have up to 12 or 13 J-11B in airforce colors as of February based on photographs. By now there should be a full regiment of at least 24 aircraft.

for past 20 years J-10 was also 100% Chinese effort. U dont have 24 J-11B.

Heh, look at the P-8 deal with the US. Check the Indian thread for more. MiG-29/35 are ruled out of the MRCA program.

where it is signed?. u are reading someone opinions. Infact Eurocopter lost already won tender. and Russia is not interested in fixed price contracts that spread years to negotiate and decades to implement. Its money losing proposition in appreciating currency and wage growth.

offcourse. If Chinese can copy the rest of world products. i am sure Russia can rewrite contracts.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
where is ur answer to that?

So why this talk about LEGAL action if they really dont care about a legal process…?

legal action means the same thing as taking economic action.

In this case it would be wiser and less challenging for russia to drop any legality argument or any legal case against chinese (use of their technology in a manner which is not according to them was contracted for ) and simply throw them into prepetual inflation .

if some thing is illegal (i dont know yet Flanker case) they will call it illegal anyway but methods to enforce that actions against such illegality is different. for example Russian company has taken pipleine construction project from turkemnistan to china. Prices are set far higher than any consumer are willing to pay at this point towards the east. Since EU has far stronger currency they are willing to pay far higher prices. So it is playing east vs west. These countries simply have no where to go but deal on Russia terms.

S-200 and S-300 aren’t remotely similar in any way other than they both have pointy front ends.

so why should S-300/S-400 be similar other than using each other missiles just like F-22 is using F-15C weopons. the more weopons u use the better flexibility.
underneath Software, electronics, propulsion, precsion manufacturing, materials science of S-400 is from different era and price point. they are going towrds S-500 and beyond. but it does not mean S-500 and S-300 becomes the same.

Although not a lawyer the only “REAL” messure i see russia taking (that they can take legally) is smacking some type of embargo/sanction on china until china agrees to a compromise that is suitable to russia , other then that (and ofcourse attacking china in an all out war 😉 – not a possibility ) i dont see russia can do much . This isnt about a simple trade dispute (as it is russia aint in the WTO ) but complex weapons programs , tech transfer etc etc , solving by sitting down bi laterlally is the only way to resolve this , their is no court in my view that can rule on this that would be binding on china in any way. I doubt that any serious world power will team up with russia if such a hypothetical court passes such a hypothetical judgement and issue full sanctions on china for infringing upon rights of russia . This is most likely scare tactics by russia to china telling them they are on to it and that they should be more in line with russia or else face hurdles in defence cooperation , i dont see this much beyond that definately not like a major trade dispute that some might see this becoming .

Russia doesnot solve its dispute in court. Infact this warning not just to China but also to rest of East Asia like Japan/Korea. Do business on Russia terms or else fight high inflation the rest of there life with decrease access to natural resoruces. Those countries properity is based on buying cheap raw material from Middleast/Australia/Africa/latinamerica etc because Western mulitnationals have weak because of debt and coldwar. Now the big Cash rich Russians firms are in biding war for natural resources around the world to drive the prices. thats the reason Putin want to buy Uranium from Australia and africa.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/may/24/moneyinvestments.investmentfunds
Why big guns back the new Russian revolution