Ever seen the MiG-35 model at MAKS 2007? There are clear differences between it and the MiG-29K including reshaped wings and fins. Engine and cockpit as well as some other components are shared but the MiG-35 currently does NOT exist in its definite form. The avionics suite isn’t finalised either as it depends on the customer requirements. If Eurofighter or Dassault would have been interested in showing working AESAs on an airshow they would have done it. Fact is these radars has been test flown before the Zhuk-MAE was even fitted to the MiG-35 demonstrator!

So do you think EF/Rafale exist in definite form? Everything changes with time. If MIG-35 was produced in year 2008 it will closely look like MIG-29K because thats what MIG is producing new. But you look at some future date it may look different. Just look at time line of Dassualt for RDY-2 from RDY. it took so long. I bet this AESA will take another 10 years.

That is nonsense, multirole is not defined by specific weapons or radar modes. The very first Gripens featured guided and unguided AG munitions and its radar included various AG modes. The pilot was able to switch between AA & AG modes at any time he wants. That is what is called multirole in common sense. That not all the weapons currently available, were available at that time or that the SAR was missing doesn’t mean the aircraft wasn’t multirole. The same applies to the F-16.

what kind of guided weopons JAS-39A are using to be classifed as 4+ generation. I have defined generation in the size of ETs,weopons, AtoG modes
F-18C & F-18E are both multirole but you wont put 4++ infront of F-18C.

I’m not denying that Mujahadeen in the 1980s were far better provided for in the 1980s than the Taleban are in the present day, it would be one reason why the coalition has suffered only 711 fatalities (wikipedia) in the last 6 1/2 years in Afghanistan while the Soviets suffered 14000+ in their war 20 years ago – but there must other reasons as well.

what other reasons except Soviets have better control and Government didnot collapsed even when they left for couple of years. There is price of aggressive strategy.

That’s not the issue I’m disputing or raising, the point is the North Vietnamese were 10 if not a 100 times better armed and provisioned for than the Mujahadeen ever were, and that would help explain the different casualty figures between the Soviet and American armies.

How are North Vietnamese 10 times better armed than Mujhadeen considering the practical conditions? do u think Patriot/F-16 equipped Mujahadeen could have done better. It could easily provided more target of opportunity to Soviet airpower& would have easily escalated the conflict to its logical conclusion.
North Vietnamese were equped with fighters/missiles that were atleast two generation behind US. I am not even going into training. North Vietnamese rode Bicycles mujhd travelled in Landcrusers/Land Rover/Surf/4Runner. huge gap in funding.

Well the Stinger did completely change Soviet tactics – it meant that in most cases Soviet pilots wouldn’t fly below 4500 metres (15,000 ft) or so, which would completely rule out any accurate strikes or CAS for the troops below. One could argue, that because of this, the AIM-92 Stinger was probably one of the most successful air defence weapons to see action in the cold war period.

First shot of Stringer came around sept 1986. By that time Soviets were already negotiating withdrawl. it took 1 year of negotiations for final agreement.

Quite frankly much the Soviet air war was nothing more than one complete carpet/terror bombing compaign which certainly brought no glory to to the Soviet air forces.

IF they really wanted the way you are portraying they would have been done with war in less than a year.

The current MiG-35 is nothing else than a single demonstrator not even close to a possible production version in terms of airframe. The Zhuk-MAE used is still a prototype too and was not test flown before last year. A first RBE2 AA demonstrator has been tested onboard a Mystere 20 back in december 2002 and onboard a Rafale demonstration aircraft back in april or may 2003. The Typhoon’s CAESAR demonstrator has been test flown onboard a BAC 1-11 on 24th February 2006 and onboard a Typhoon on 8th May 2007. Claiming the MiG-35 “has” AESA, while the European fighters have not is plain stupid. Operationally you are right, but the MiG-35 is no operational aircraft at all…

MIG-35 is clear representation of MIG-29K that are going to supplied to IN this May. Only the front end of radar is changed.
MIG-35 could boldly present there working radar at Airshow which EF/Rafale/Gripen is unable to do so. The same is true for newer IRST that IAF has selected for upgrading MIG-29. Only TVC is on OVT aircraft that also practically demonstrated.

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=67535&highlight=mig-35
He added that this raised the guaranteed service life of an active phased array radar to 10,000 hours. “We officially guarantee only 600-900 hours now, because the technology still needs to be proven in operation,” he said.

He added that the active phased array radar employs a high-speed computer, capable of 50 billion simple operations, which ensures radar signal processing with high resolution, so that targets become visible even if they are located 35-50 meters one from another.

Guskov also said that the radar installed in the MiG-35 also has 680 emitting elements. Later on the number may be increased to 1,064, while the radars of Su-30 will have more than 2,000 of them. “As of now the price of one emitting assembly is $400. When we start mass-production, it will cost far less,” he said.

He noted that the active phased array radar of the MiG-35 is based fully and entirely on Russian microelectronics. “Our radar is not inferior to any foreign analogies, but costs less. As a matter of fact, only France and the U.S. could afford having active phased arrays on their planes. Now Russia joined the club,” he said and added that the array is designed so as to be easily assembled and disassembled in the manner of the Lego play sets.

According to him, the array is fully integral with the power supply system and the cooling system of the fighter. “This is of paramount importance, because active phased arrays may be incapacitated quite simply. If no cooling is provided, the element’s temperature will immediately rise to 300, 400, 500 degrees Centigrade and it will simply burn. An active phased array radar at a price of several million dollars can burn in mere seconds,” he said.

He added that the production version of the active phased array radar to be installed into the MiG-35 fighter will be ready next year.

The Gripen was completely multirole from the very beginning in the modern sense, as it was designed to be so. Same applies to the F/A-18. The F-16 had such capabilities as well, just the MiG-29 and M2k lacked them at the beginning.

Gripen was not compeletly multirole nor F-16. there radars lacked the SAR modes untill recently & werent certified for weopons/payloads which are now. Even J-10 can drop bombs.

That is correct however Russia has a decreasing population, few Russian brands can compete with western ones in terms of cars computers even commercial aviation, Russia also is experimenting an economy based upon selling raw materials.

Is russia lost? no! it is true Russia will grow and perhaps can catch up and even surpass Brazil for a few years, however Russia is a nation that has lost all its empire, has lost the energy it had it is graying fast it has few children, it has an oligarchy as bad as Mexico or Brazil, criminality as bad as Mexico and Brazil and men are dying younger than in Mexico and Brazil.

The Future of Russia is bleak to say the least.

Today` Russia is economically and in development in the league of Mexico and Brazil however a nation without youth is a nation dying. they have more science than us in latin america true but they have less chances of catching up at the long run, and their children also suffer proverty as the ones we have, a nation witn such features can not catch up easily, Russia is in the same condition Spain and Portugal were in the 1900 or England in the 1970s, it is an empire in decadence that needs desperately join Europe to gain part of its lost power

in fact the state of the russian submarine fleet shows that they have collapsed as a maritime power

So u think Russia desperetly wants to Join EU? Russia only wants to squeeze EU not to Join them. Russia Technological power & Wealth is in whole different league than entire latin America/EU. they can pretty walkway from contracts and still get rich. Brazil auto growth is even lower than China/India which are dirt poor compare to Russia and here we are considering total wealth.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/12/business/worldbusiness/12nuclear.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&oref=slogin
the Russian Atomic Energy agency is looking into developing floating reactors built on pontoons. The Russians envision a product that could be towed into ports in the developing world and hooked to the local power grid, for a fee.
“We are, generally speaking, the absolute monopoly here,” Russia’s first deputy prime minister, Sergei B. Ivanov, said of the floating reactors. “Nobody apart from us is able or knows how to build them.”

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jJXNHnnWGV3Cb17N944K7gyoQpbwD8UVCK500
SEOUL, South Korea (AP) — The head of Nissan Motor Co. said even if the United States is not in recession, its auto industry is.

Ghosn said that Russia will surpass Germany in the next two years as Europe’s largest auto market.
“Nobody can ignore Russia,” he said.

Comparing American support for the Mujahadeen with Soviet support for the Communist Vietnamese, are we?:rolleyes:

So do u think Mujaheeen has only support of American. So from where all the world terrorists concentrated there along with those Egyptian/Chinese weopons.

Tell me, how many American supplied aircraft were there in the Mujahadeen air force anyway?:confused:

as if aircrafts make a difference in this kind of war.

And don’t start over-rating the Stinger MANPAD in Mujahadeen service either…

Soviet were in full control untill the last day. there was no evacuation. Even 3years after withdrawl the government was there. If Soviet Union was there Mujaheeden would still be fighting for ever. it is not sudden collapse like Vietnam.

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&section=0&article=91974&d=10&m=2&y=2007
The Communist regime in Kabul was overthrown by an alliance of a Communist militia whose leader the Uzbek Abdul-Rashid Dostum decided to switch sides, and a Tajik guerrilla army led by Ahmad Shah Massoud.

Years later, Dostum told us that he decided to switch side when his “contacts” in Moscow told him that the new Soviet elite under Mikhail Gorbachev was no longer interested in the fate of Afghanistan.

star49, Tejas is a multirole plane as per the developing Agency, ADA. It can carry air-to-air missile (recently test-fired R-73) and drop tanks. A2G weaponry will also be tested.

I want to see the size of drop tanks. it will give earliest clue about how far its from Multi-role ability. It took French Five years to go from M2K-5 to M2K-9.

Regarding its being 4+, it is because of its technologies like avionics package, digital quad FBW, Elta (and later AESA) radar, which are equivalent to Rafale or Gripen. Its composite percentage is higher than Typhoon too, as per official webpages of the 2 fighters.

Advance avionics package is relative term along with Slot array radar. F-16 has quadigital since 1980s. But whats makes advance Block 52/60 in 4+ category is there huge MTOW increase which allow them CFT/bigger EFTs.
Same is true for MIG-29K. 50% increase ininternal fuel along with larger wing for 8 underwing weopon stations along with multiple racks. MIG-35 goes to 10 underwing stations. what will be left in Teja when u add ET/pods for Strike mission. Su-27 is technologicall essentially the same as Su-30MK but Su-30 is put in 4+ because of its mulitrole ability.
Teja is essentially 4th generation fighter & thats also on paper. It has still long way to go for 4+ even on paper. It is not even comparable to MIG-35 on paper as MIG-35 engines/larger wing/increase fuel capacity are already tested on MIG-29K. and AESARadar/IRST/EO pods are arlready there on MIG-29M2.
On which Fighter Teja subsytems are currently under tests or ordered?

I may reiterate that components imported for Tejas are engine (same as Gripen and T-50), cockpit displays (same as Rafale), gyroscopes, testing equipment and integration of FBW from Lockheed Martin, and the Litening pod from Israel (later version used in JSF).

so why u are comparing development time line/cost to Rafale when it was not even using M2K engines/radar for testing. cockpit display along with HUD of Rafale looks different than what ever i have seen in M2K.

Wait what? the Russians ‘tamed’ the Norks, sir i think your rather misguided and confused judging from that comment…

so do u think Russia needs that paltry sum of $800m spread over 12 years to build a reactor in Iran?. When Market price is now $3B.