MeatWhat is that hump in between the engines?
Air brakes I guess;)
I thought it was just the tail-end of the extended dorsal spine myself at first. But when I look closer, I can see there’s a small hump on top of the “main” hump, which I believe is what Victor is asking about. Not sure what that is.
MeatLooks like it is exactly vice versa, smartie.
From CNN quickvote, Wed, Nov 10 2004, test performed in the USA
Question: Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11?
Votes sent : 8582
Answered Yes: 7747
Answered No : 835There goes your theory about me being the only one. Nationwide polls have shown roughly 1/3 of American population believing the WTC attacks were fabricated. Worldwide polls vary from 35 to 67% depending on location. Looks like it is you standing in the line of the retarded ones who still did not grasp it
Another poll, also conducted by CNN, in September 2006 showed that 43% (i.e., significantly more than 1/3) of Americans believe that Saddam was personally involved in the 9/11 attacks. :rolleyes: So, polls are far from reliable at revealing who is intelligent and who is not.
MeatExactly what number of sorties did the coalition fly during GW-1?
FAS.org gives the number as approximately 110,000. Kfadrat points out that the Allies lost 50 planes in combat, and another 60 to accidents. Technically, we should probably only count the combat losses, but we’ll be generous and use his number of total losses (110). That would give the Allies the murderous, catastrophic loss rate of .1%. Point one percent. Against one of the most formidable networked air defense systems in the world at the time.
Point one percent.
Yes, what a failure the Allied air campaign was. Kfadrat’s right. That loss rate is nothing to write home about. :rolleyes:
MeatDoes the USN & USMC usually take part in the Red Flag exercise?
Yes, they do, though obviously not in near the numbers of the USAF. The Marines send Harriers and/or Hornets, while the Navy for the most part sends some EA-6Bs in the SEAD role.
For the current Red Flag, the Navy is sending 4 Prowlers from NAS Whidbey Island, while the Marines are sending an undetermined number of Harriers, for the second session of the exercise next month.
Meatyou do realise that the allies lost over 50 aircraft in combat and about 60 in accidents, don’t you?
I always find it amusing how some people love to point out the number of Western (though they really mean American) aircraft lost in one conflict or another, yet they always — always — conveniently neglect to weigh the number of losses against the number of sorties.
Meat[QUOTE=tiddles;1069316]
In my opinion, the absolute best place you can go for Red Flag info is http://www.dreamlandresort.com .
Hi Meat, Thanks for posting the dreamland link, I have had quite a bit of enjoyment working my way thru it, or some of it anyhow. Great adv. for Rachael but who would want to live there.The 360% panoramic view from the Inn window is almost surreal.
That’s part of the appeal, according to some of the residents I’ve spoken to. Some people want nothing more than to live in the absolute middle of nowhere. I’ve been out there on three occasions (to visit the base and say hello to the cammo dudes), and it is the very definition of desolate, which of course I expected. What I didn’t expect is the beauty of the desert, which doesn’t always come through in photos. There’s so much more color than you might imagine.
MeatFrom the dreamlandresort.com site, the participating aircraft for the first session of the current Red Flag:
86-0108 (DY) B-1B 28 BS
82-1067 (WM) B-2A 13 BS
89-0128 (WM) B-2A 13 BS
90-0041 (WM) B-2A 13 BS
93-1088 (WM) B-2A 13 BS
88-0249 AH-64A A/1-211 Avn, UT ArNG
90-0447 AH-64A A/1-211 Avn, UT ArNG
90-0450 AH-64A A/1-211 Avn, UT ArNG
90-0453 AH-64A A/1-211 Avn, UT ArNG
92-0513 AH-64A A/1-211 Avn, UT ArNG
86-0105 (DY) B-1B 28 BS
86-0117 (DY) B-1B 9 BS
86-0133 (DY) B-1B 9 BS
65-0973 (FT) HC-130P 71 RQS
65-0983 (FT) HC-130P 71 RQS
63-8044 KC-135R 63 ARS
58-0058 KC-135R 64 ARS
57-2594 KC-135E 108 ARS, IL ANG
58-0068 KC-135E 108 ARS, IL ANG
ZZ172 C-17A 99 Sqn
ZH883 Hercules C5 LTW
84-0094 C-21A
64-14845 (OFl) RC-135V 343 RS
92-3290 (GA) E-8C 16 ACCS
? Nimrod R1 51 Sqn
91-0321 (LN) F-15E 492 FS
91-0332 (LN) F-15E 492 FS
96-0202 (LN) F-15E 492 FS
96-0205 (LN) F-15E 492 FS
97-0220 (LN) F-15E 492 FS
97-0221 (LN) F-15E 492 FS
97-0222 (LN) F-15E 492 FS
98-0131 (LN) F-15E 492 FS
91-0324 (LN) F-15E 494 FS
91-0331 (LN) F-15E 494 FS
91-0604 (LN) F-15E 494 FS
92-0364 (LN) F-15E 494 FS
??-0025 (ZZ) F-15C 44 FS
78-0548 (-) F-15C 44 FS
80-0012 (ZZ) F-15C 44 FS
80-0013 (ZZ) F-15C 44 FS
81-0029 (-) F-15C 44 FS
81-0040 (-) F-15C 44 FS
81-0051 (ZZ) F-15C 44 FS
82-0010 (-) F-15C 44 FS
83-0023 (-) F-15C 44 FS
83-0025 (-) F-15C 44 FS
83-0047 (ZZ) F-15D 44 FS
84-0043 (ZZ) F-15D 44 FS
160709 (NE-501) EA-6B VAQ-131
163397 (501) EA-6B VAQ-132
163045 (502) EA-6B VAQ-132
90-0807 (WW) F-16CJ 13 FS
90-0820 (WW) F-16CJ 13 FS
90-0825 (WW) F-16CJ 13 FS
90-0838 (WW) F-16DJ 13 FS
92-3892 (WW) F-16CJ 13 FS
92-3895 (WW) F-16CJ 13 FS
90-0810 (WW) F-16CJ 14 FS
91-0363 (WW) F-16CJ 14 FS
91-0422 (WW) F-16CJ 14 FS
91-0462 (WW) F-16DJ 14 FS
92-3894 (WW) F-16CJ 14 FS
92-3912 (WW) F-16CJ 14 FS
ZA373 (007/H) Tornado GR4A 2 Sqn
ZA395 (009) Tornado GR4A 13 Sqn
ZD707 (077) Tornado GR4 –
ZD740 (BG) Tornado GR4 14 Sqn
ZD811 (103) Tornado GR4 –
ZE162 (-) Tornado F3 –
ZE204 (FC) Tornado F3 25 Sqn
ZE254 (UD) Tornado F3 –
ZE257 (GI) Tornado F3 43 Sqn
ZG753 (HH) Tornado F3 111 Sqn
? (HE) Tornado F3 111 Sqn
MeatManuverability of the MiG-23MS was very poor, and the structure was weak. It was restricted to 5g after a test plane disintegrated while in a 7.3g turn. Handling at high AoA has been described as “vicious”, and the MIG-23MS (or MiG-23M) was “prone to enter an unrecoverable flat spin in such condidtions.” In short, the MiG-23MS was awful, but again, the missiles in the F-106A were not suited to dogfights, so I think gun kills would have been more likely.
Heads up, Rocky. Incendiaries are very likely headed your way. 😉
MeatOperation Red Flag started yesterday(16/01/07). Does anyone have any details about the exercise. I know the Australians and us Brits are participating in it. Its also the first deployment of the F-22 to a Red Flag operation. I guess Tornados will be particpating and the F-111 but not the Typhoon.
In my opinion, the absolute best place you can go for Red Flag info is http://www.dreamlandresort.com . True, the site’s primary focus is the base at Groom Lake (no UFO stuff), but the discussion forum is populated by some of the most knowledgeable people around regarding the NTS, including Red Flag of course. Every Red Flag exercise is discussed, including all participating units. A post a couple of days ago even listed the tail numbers of participating aircraft.
MeatI remember getting the first footage on CNN at about 1:30 in the morning: grainy, greenish night vision shot of sky over Bagdad, lit up by AAA tracer.
Without a doubt, one of the iconic images of the 90s, if not the 20th century.
MeatNot to take away from the seriousness of the topic, but I can’t help but recall the hilarious SNL episode a few nights later…Dennis Miller of Weekend Update talking to Al Franken who was supposedly in Baghdad, as a “self-contained one man mobile uplink unit,” describing the approaching Tomahawk as it gets closer, and closer, and closer…:D
“In fact, I can see a Tomahawk now…turning now, towards me…”
MeatDon’t be silly, Sferrin is perfectly correct. The fact that the US invades countries all around the world all the time … blah, blah blah, rant, rant rant….
Wrong thread. The “US Bashing” thread is on the GD Forum.:D
He can’t help it. He’s been wearing that tinfoil hat for so long now, it’s become very comfortable.
MeatI am just making an speculative analisys
Which is not what Franc was asking for.
You say I’m criticizing you, and that’s not true. I’ve got no issue with you personally. I even said your analysis is most likely correct. It’s just that you weren’t answering his question, you were taking the thread off on a tangent (which is where we are now). You even started comparing the MiG-23 with Tornados, Fencers, and Varks.
All I’m saying is, you were posting a ton of info that wasn’t responding to the question. The theoretical result of a potential encounter doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the actual result of an historical encounter. He was asking for the score to last week’s game, and you were telling him how the teams might match up next week. Do you see what I’m trying to say?
Meat*YAWN*
How ******* insightful , I salute you for your contribution to this thread.
It was no less of a “contribution” to the original thread question than MiG-23MLD’s posting was.
MeatThose that have leaped to MiG-23MLD’s defense in this thread are (in my own opinion) one of two things: A; new to the forum, and therefore haven’t seen this sort of thing from him an infinite number of times, or B; weren’t paying attention to the topic of the thread.
The OP (Franc) was asking for information about a specific encounter (meaning, one incident) between DRPK MiG-23s and ROK F-4s in 1994. At which point, MiG-23MLD jumped in and gave a lengthy (and familiar to longtime forum members) discourse on the performance characteristics of both aircraft. Whether or not his figures are accurate (and I think they probably are) is irrelevant; just as his entire posting was irrelevant to the question posed in the thread. Franc wasn’t asking how the MiG-23 compares to the F-4 in general, nor was he posing a theoretical scenario, he was asking what happened in a particular instance.
Here’s an analogy: Someone asks, “Did you hear about the car wreck on the highway yesterday between the Audi and the BMW? What caused the crash? Who was driving?” To which someone replies, “Well, over the years, BMWs have fared slightly better in crash tests than Audi models, and here’s some data to prove it.” Doesn’t answer the question asked, does it?
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