MeatThe Russian airdefence systems include radars we know are very good. They were able to track objects the American radars couldn’t during tests to evaluate their ABM radars. Using the ground based radars to support their interceptions and using IRSTs and IR guided long range missiles to do the actual interception I think the Mig-31M has the advantage.
You’re forgetting one thing. Within the first few hours of any conflict against the US, those ground based radars aren’t going to be there anymore. :diablo:
Meatits the other way round man …. many simply refuses to accept the fact that Raptor is not invincible, and hence anyone who don go with that line is anti-american or illogical … and u wud like to explain the theatre where Raptor pilot will wish as to how much time the MiG-31 need to live …… please do elaborate.
Respectfully, I’m sure you’ve read through most of the threads here. The prevailing sentiment from a number of the posters seems to be that in the event of a conflict, the US might as well not bother sending its planes up, since they’ll apparently be immediately sent fluttering to the earth by the mighty technological juggernaut that is the Russian Air Force. To some people on this board, an F-22 will be pathetically easy to bring down with a Foxhound, Fulcrum, or Flanker, which by that logic infers that an F-15 is toast against a MiG-21 or 23. So (and again, I mean this respectfully) please don’t lecture me about things being “the other way round.” It’s just not the case.
To answer your second point, what I meant was that while the Foxhound is scouring the airspace with its powerful radar like a searchlight, the Raptor pilot, who has long since detected the MiG’s radar signal, has taken advantage of his stealth ability and moved to a favorable position, long before the MiG has detected him. Those ultra-long range AAMs the Foxhound is carrying won’t be of any use without a target. As another poster pointed out, the first indication a Foxhound pilot will likely have that a Raptor is hunting him will be a missile launch warning in his headset.
Raptors capablity is greatly (as is the case with all US & other fighters) enhanced by the AWACS and other supports available and the reason y i mentioned as to y the R-37 might get onto the future a/c. So in the case (the theatre where Raptor & MiG-31 meet), the first priority wud be to take out the supporting platforms like the AWACS
Ask yourself this – would you care to ride backseat in a Russian fighter going after such a difficult (i.e., protected) target as an American AWACS? I would hope your affairs were all in order first.
MeatSome people still thinks that F-22 is so stealth that he is “invisible” even to God…..
And some people are so blinded by anti-US bigotry they will refuse to accept any idea other than absolute Russian superiority. The simple truth is that in combat between these two particular aircraft, the Foxhound survives precisely as long as the Raptor pilot wishes it to.
Meat???
We couldn’t care less.
Typical.
Meatthe only conclusion I can come to is that Iranians are just plain stupid, because they would of been served far better with the F-16.
People with IQs of 218 don’t make such glaring grammatical errors. It’s “would have been served,” not “would of been served.”
MeatRegardless, i still think the F-23 is too good to let go. And it hasn’t been. There have been numerous articles in the past (before the days of us typing on this message board and internet) from various sources (N-G’s newletter included) that let slip they brought the YF-23 about by tweaking a design they were already flying and testing. Seriously, look at it. Does it really seem like a great air superiority/counter air fighter to you? No. But it sure seems like a great striker/interdictor, don’t it?
There are those who believe that what crashed at RAF Boscombe Down on 26 September 1994 was a variant of the F-23 (or perhaps the F-23 was a variant of it), based on eyewitness reports and descriptions of the partially-covered aircraft later seen in a hangar, before it was transported on a C-5 to Plant 42.
MeatIt has to be the M2k5 or a mix of M2k5 and mig 29’s. They are both more than capable of taking out a bunch of F-16’s.
And the F-16 is equally capable of turning a bunch of Fulcrums and Mirages into scrap metal. Come on, is everyone on this board a slave to their own prejudices? A contest between any combination of these three aircraft is most likely to come down to pilot skill and/or situational advantage.
MeatSR-71s were never flown near anything that could shoot them down.
If they had continued the policy of overflying the Soviet Union there would have been quite a few shootdowns.
Interesting that you take issue with his statement that the Blackbird couldn’t be touched, but you don’t seem to have a problem with the article’s similar (and ridiculous) statement about the Foxbat: “The aircraft was only vulnerable when flying in normal atmosphere. Once it reached the stratosphere, it could not be challenged. “
Holy drooling bias, Batman!
MeatOn the Zaslon radar display, is the screen oriented so that the contacts are displayed as if the pilot is looking forward into space (meaning contacts at the top of the screen are at higher altitude than those at the center or bottom), or is it a “God’s-eye” view from above?
MeatPerhaps that helps… If not then… im sorry i spoke.
BARNOWL
Please don’t be. I certainly didn’t mean to trample on your opinion.
MeatLook, as a neutral reader, I guess few would dispute that. America’s technological lead is pretty supreme. But there ARE chinks in the armour, and the author could let the opposition at least try to exploit that. Yet the authors just dont seem to grant the ‘opposition’ in their books much intelligence, which makes the reader feel, ‘uh yeah, so the American side won because the opponents were too dumb not to capitalise on assymettrical weaknesses but went head to head against what the Americans did best’. Not a really satisfying reading experience. I have no opposition to America coming out victorious, but at least make the way America wins more believable.
Actually, I feel that Clancy did just that in Debt Of Honor, where the Japanese, under cover of a joint naval exercise, disabled a US carrier and sank a US nuclear sub (and a Trident sub at that!), while the Indian navy tied up another carrier in the Indian Ocean, all of which combined to seriously hinder the American ability to respond effectively.
Further, in his older novel Red Storm Rising, the Americans pretty much get their butts kicked for about the first half to two-thirds of the book. They lose a major strategic base (Iceland), and the tide of the war isn’t turned until the US Navy figures out a way to counter the constant Soviet Backfire bomber raids on US convoys (which Clancy paints as extremely effective and difficult to defend against).
So in my opinion, Clancy goes a long way in making it clear that America would not always enjoy a cakewalk victory.
MeatLike instances of Dale Brown’s books rely on the “luckily the Megafortress’s American radar was quicker and better than the Russian’s” approach. Obviously this is not an exact example, but is prominent and at times intensl irritating.
BARNOWL
Why would this be so irritating, or hard to believe? In almost every instance, American electronic equipment, like radar, is going to be quicker and better. American electronics are much more advanced than Russian electronics. That’s just a fact of life. The Russians are extremely adept at making the most out of what are, on paper, outmoded systems. That’s their strength, and it must be respected. But if you would truly prefer to entrust your life to Russian electronics in opposition to American electronics, you simply have a death wish. I’m going to get hammered for saying that, I know, but please believe me when I say this is not prejudice, or Russia-bashing. Again, it is simply a fact. Russian electronics are not as advanced as American.
MeatBy far the best war novel around would be “Total War 2006” by Simon Pearson. This book trumps ALL of Tom Clancy’s, Dale Brown’s and Stephen Coonts novels easily. Absolutely must read. This guy did his homework, and knows his stuff. No ra ra USA stuff here, that Dale and Clancy suffers from. The book comes with a very chilling and shocking ending. Heh, even the prologue will give a shock. Really an underappreciated novel.
Great story, I agree, but Pearson (in my opinion) needs to work on his dialogue. It sounds straight from a comic book at times.
Also, I’d like you to give an example of any of Clancy’s so-called “ra ra USA stuff.” I like Clancy a lot, though his last few novels have slipped in quality. But he still knows his stuff more than any other novelist out there. So again, give an example.
MeatUm, hey…guys? Come on back over here.
The thread topic is the USS Liberty. I read two opinions, and then we took off after lost Israeli subs, alleged trigger-happy soldiers, and the contents of Kofi Annan’s safe.
Does anyone else have any opinions to offer regarding the subject at hand?
Meatwestern powers always claim SAMs shot down their aircrafts and the Russians affirm those were air to air kills.
Well, it seems to me that it would be extremely simple for the Russians to prove that they were air-to-air kills. Just supply the gun/HUD camera footage.
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