Sky HighI would be genuinely interested to hear from those who oppose the EU what their vision is for the UK without membership. Thanks.
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See my earlier posts. I think we should be offered an “in or out” referendum and the government of the day should commit to the decision – “in or out”.
Sky HighI would be genuinely interested to hear from those who oppose the EU what their vision is for the UK without membership. Thanks.
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See my earlier posts. I think we should be offered an “in or out” referendum and the government of the day should commit to the decision – “in or out”.
Sky HighAnd is that violence inspired by religion, or just your classic rioting of the lower social classes…
Not really sure how I am supposed to answer that as I haven’t suggested either.
Sky HighAnd is that violence inspired by religion, or just your classic rioting of the lower social classes…
Not really sure how I am supposed to answer that as I haven’t suggested either.
Sky HighYes, you should infer that (Top marks for being one of the few who understand the difference between ‘infer’ and ‘imply’)
I am always sceptical of unsupported claims of “The unprecedented rise in…” And I hate the abuse of statistics.
I’m happy to discuss any topic, but the starting point has to be factual, not ‘Daily Mail’ hysteria
Has your googling confirmed it then?
Moggy
I trust your first sentence was not intended to be patronising.
And, to be honest, I have not done much “googling” other than to discover a great deal of contradictory information. There seems to be evidence of localised increases in specific urban areas such as Paris, Amsterdam, Hamburg, Leicester and Bradford. Government statistics are notoriously woolly so perception of a problem does play a important role.
I am not sure why the daily Mail hysteria accusation is directed at me – I don’t think I have used it or referred to it.
Sky HighYes, you should infer that (Top marks for being one of the few who understand the difference between ‘infer’ and ‘imply’)
I am always sceptical of unsupported claims of “The unprecedented rise in…” And I hate the abuse of statistics.
I’m happy to discuss any topic, but the starting point has to be factual, not ‘Daily Mail’ hysteria
Has your googling confirmed it then?
Moggy
I trust your first sentence was not intended to be patronising.
And, to be honest, I have not done much “googling” other than to discover a great deal of contradictory information. There seems to be evidence of localised increases in specific urban areas such as Paris, Amsterdam, Hamburg, Leicester and Bradford. Government statistics are notoriously woolly so perception of a problem does play a important role.
I am not sure why the daily Mail hysteria accusation is directed at me – I don’t think I have used it or referred to it.
Sky HighI refer again to the European Parliament. More democratic I suggest than the internal UK system. This “non democratic” EU stuff does not wash, although it does if you don’t participate to the full within the Union structures and procedures, the UK seems constantly adverse to doing this and then blames all the other members who do for lauding it over the UK, you can’t have it both ways. Seriously, if the UK does not adopt a more positive stance towards the EU and the many benefits of being within it, because we only seem to hear about the negative aspects of that, then I fear the country will be on a hiding to nothing.
The European Parliament has no power. The power is entirely vested in the Council and its officers, who are unelected.
Sky HighI refer again to the European Parliament. More democratic I suggest than the internal UK system. This “non democratic” EU stuff does not wash, although it does if you don’t participate to the full within the Union structures and procedures, the UK seems constantly adverse to doing this and then blames all the other members who do for lauding it over the UK, you can’t have it both ways. Seriously, if the UK does not adopt a more positive stance towards the EU and the many benefits of being within it, because we only seem to hear about the negative aspects of that, then I fear the country will be on a hiding to nothing.
The European Parliament has no power. The power is entirely vested in the Council and its officers, who are unelected.
Sky HighFair enough.
So……..
How would the UK pay its way in the world?
What vital goods or materials does this country produce or manufacture that non-EU countries would wish to buy from us, or that would induce the EU to negotiate a favourable trade treaty with us?
How long do you think overseas investors would hang around here once the UK was no longer a (comparatively) cheap point of entry into major European markets?
How long do you think London would last as a major financial and legal centre once the UK was no longer a point of entry into major European markets?
Serious questions, with no comforting answers.
Sorry, Grey Area, I had missed your post, so no avoidance of your questions was intended.
I suppose the answer is a single one. No one knows. There is great debate on both sides between those who argue that the UK would be doomed and on the other side by those who feel that little would change other than the UK would regain its ability to choose and decide its policies in its best interests rather than than the EU’s interests. New talk to set new budgets will take place next summer inevitably resulting in even larger payments by the UK and others.
I have seen many and varied opinions as to the real benefits of our membership, as have you, no doubt, by those far more qualified than me, and I am unconvinced that our membership is wholly beneficial.
In the long run I see no reason at all why anything would change significantly – we would continue to sell into the EU as do the other fringe nations and we would continue to buy from the EU on the same basis. And we would be free to maintain the strength of London as a global financial centre , which the EU is about to diminish. Most importantly we would be freed from the onerous costs the EU imposes on its members through its regulatory network.
I am, by nature, an anti-federalist, but those who are will welcome the new structure and enjoy watching as the EU builds its empire across the globe, but its not for me.
Sky HighFair enough.
So……..
How would the UK pay its way in the world?
What vital goods or materials does this country produce or manufacture that non-EU countries would wish to buy from us, or that would induce the EU to negotiate a favourable trade treaty with us?
How long do you think overseas investors would hang around here once the UK was no longer a (comparatively) cheap point of entry into major European markets?
How long do you think London would last as a major financial and legal centre once the UK was no longer a point of entry into major European markets?
Serious questions, with no comforting answers.
Sorry, Grey Area, I had missed your post, so no avoidance of your questions was intended.
I suppose the answer is a single one. No one knows. There is great debate on both sides between those who argue that the UK would be doomed and on the other side by those who feel that little would change other than the UK would regain its ability to choose and decide its policies in its best interests rather than than the EU’s interests. New talk to set new budgets will take place next summer inevitably resulting in even larger payments by the UK and others.
I have seen many and varied opinions as to the real benefits of our membership, as have you, no doubt, by those far more qualified than me, and I am unconvinced that our membership is wholly beneficial.
In the long run I see no reason at all why anything would change significantly – we would continue to sell into the EU as do the other fringe nations and we would continue to buy from the EU on the same basis. And we would be free to maintain the strength of London as a global financial centre , which the EU is about to diminish. Most importantly we would be freed from the onerous costs the EU imposes on its members through its regulatory network.
I am, by nature, an anti-federalist, but those who are will welcome the new structure and enjoy watching as the EU builds its empire across the globe, but its not for me.
Sky HighOne of the big problems is that a large proportion of us have never wanted to join the ‘EU’,we have never been given a chance to vote on joining the ‘EU’.
The EU is a wasteful Juggernaut which is out of control and the fat pigs are well and truly at the trough :rolleyes:
It has been demonstrated very publically recently that if the EU does not get the desired result then it merely keeps repeating the referendum until it gets the desired result.. I want no part of it…our own elected government is wasteful enough but the Euro Gravy train is just astounding and just keeps on getting bigger and therefore more expensive.
Exactly – in a nutshell. And I think that we should refuse any further payments to the EU until the accounts have signed off – for the last 13 years! And how our friend can even talk about democracy in the EU I do not understand.
Sky HighOne of the big problems is that a large proportion of us have never wanted to join the ‘EU’,we have never been given a chance to vote on joining the ‘EU’.
The EU is a wasteful Juggernaut which is out of control and the fat pigs are well and truly at the trough :rolleyes:
It has been demonstrated very publically recently that if the EU does not get the desired result then it merely keeps repeating the referendum until it gets the desired result.. I want no part of it…our own elected government is wasteful enough but the Euro Gravy train is just astounding and just keeps on getting bigger and therefore more expensive.
Exactly – in a nutshell. And I think that we should refuse any further payments to the EU until the accounts have signed off – for the last 13 years! And how our friend can even talk about democracy in the EU I do not understand.
Sky HighAre you saying, then, that you’re OK with non-Moslems who are “not prepared to come here to live without malicious intent towards us and to abide by our laws”?
That seems a rather strange position to adopt. :confused:
No, not at all, but firstly this thread is about Muslims and I cannot immediately think of another group of immigrants who would fall into that category.
Sky HighAre you saying, then, that you’re OK with non-Moslems who are “not prepared to come here to live without malicious intent towards us and to abide by our laws”?
That seems a rather strange position to adopt. :confused:
No, not at all, but firstly this thread is about Muslims and I cannot immediately think of another group of immigrants who would fall into that category.
Sky HighLike the Vikings were tolerant then? Or the Romans?
I have to admit that all this anti-Islam stuff just leaves me cold. In fact, any religious stuff for that matter.
What pure indigenous cultures are there left anyway? The white intruders killed most of them where they still existed.
Sorry, but I think we are supposed to be discussing now, not centuries ago. If you read what is written it is not anti-Islam, it is anti any Muslim who is not prepared to come here to live without malicious intent towards us and to abide by our laws.
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