Hi all
This is an old thread – please note I don’t post on this forum any more – James I believe you are correct and it is a mis notation on the back of the pic perhaps but all the other pics in the collection appear correct so I guess he just got confused
Feel free to PM me
Kind regards
John P
I took the thread off to save more issues with my recent posts causing hassells – no more than that
Regards
John
Hi Mark12
AndyG,
Just enough to make the provenance ‘thin but robust’.
Mark
So I assume that your notebook was incorporated in the rebuild or at least the page with the serial Number LOL !!!
Regards
john p
Hi
It will be based in Melbourne and / or Wangarratta I think as that is where Mr Raftis lives (Melb) but a lot of the work will be happening at Wangarratta a couple of hours drive north of Melb at Precision Aerospace. I imagine there is much to do to get some of these flying given they have been in storage for over a decade in some cases. Given that some are also bought and sold i would be surprised if more than one example of each time is resident in Australia at any given time and as he sells the stock he would replace it ?
My theory only not fact.
Oh and I forgot rumor has it two more P51s are also involved – love rummors but as James says – believe it when you see it – Still whatever he does it will certainly be great and we should all be thankful he has done it at all
Seasons greetings
John p
Mr Raftis has a history in the Automotive trade and I have seen references to his sale and purchase of vehicles – perhaps he is also interested in dealing in aircraft – no bad thing just not a collection as such. I also believe there are two airworthy Corsairs and the German red Sea Fury from Duxford is also rummoured to be coming down under although I don’t know for sure if there is a link to Mr Raftis. There is also a rummor of several more Spitfires being involved.
John P
I think it should be built!!!!
I really love the fact that there are two upper turrets – “Pistols at Dawn!!” comes to mind
“Fortescue pleas stop shooting the other crew members please”
JP
Some theories about Asian Spitfires
1) We obtained a lot of second hand spits which were past their use by dates as supplied so their performance was inadequate from the start and a lot of the new aircraft were of obsolescent marks when they arrived.
2) Certainly in the begining when used over Darwin etc the tactic was to climb to intercept the attacking aircraft at high altitude which because of inadequate warning meant that their advantages as an interceptor were compromised as they lacked tactical equality with the adversary.
3) Australia is a long way from the UK and the servicability rate on Spits wasn’t as good as it could have been
4) The pilots of the Spits were inexperianced or were transfered from the middle east or europe where the tatics were different and the foe flew aircraft with different performance qualities – japanese machines were typicially lightly armed and constructed but handled / dogfought very well
5) A Spit is a good aircraft but not as robust in a tough environment as some others and they were prone to wear and tear and maintaince issues perhaps more so than say the p40 which was a very rugged and tough aircraft
6) In later years US types such as P51, p40N,Corsair and P38 became available and were more suited to the environment.
7) Spitfires lacked the effective range of their contemporaries.
8) I have no facts but i suspect the RAAF didn’t support the Spitfire in the best possible way.
9) The Japanese pilots were certainly in the early years highly experianced and capable and there were large numbers of them.
The above is garnered from my extensive reading of various texts on the subject as well as listening to Bobby Gibbs and others who flew the various aircraft. There is no doubt they liked Spit but the limitations from an operational perspective were such in the asian context as opposed to the european deployment of the type as to negate any advantage in performance it may have had in ideal circumstances.
Interesting posts/thread chaps
Can the pretentious crap – hypothetical discussions are a branch of serious historical endevour so feel free I say to propose anything you like – there is an interesting point here and it’s exploration is just as valid as anything else historically speaking.
As for P40s – Especially in PNG and the Pacific they fought extreamly well against stiff and well flown Japanese forces and did quite well. The test of any Air Force is the quality of the pilots and their tatics not always the quality of the aircraft – The Spitfire was a failure in Australia in relative terms because of many factors and it could well be argued that the P40 was better suited to the role – again was this because of the tactics , operational factors or other issues – who knows but is well worth the discussion.
The UK aviation industry clearly contributed to the sucess in the BoB and WW11 in general but one could hypothasise that more could have been achieved if it had developed and produced less diversity of types and concentrated more on key programs such as one or two fighter types (did the world really need the Defiant for example) and perhaps liscence production of advanced US types as well such as the P51. Others would say that the healthy diversity of types and designs led to better outcomes again a good debate to be had and it is Historically speaking important and relavent.
Dr John Parker
Didn’t one come up in a fishing net recently ?
If you want to watch a tribute to Ray you could do no better than his Wanaka 2004 video/DVD performance – shot by Lord of the rings technology it is stunning as are the comments of the brietling crew on their last performance – all the more so now ……………………………
I am travelling in the middle east and have only just seen this – he was one of the reasons I came to the UK so often – so sad – at least he had a fair innings and did the things he enjoyed to the end – grow old disgracefully seems apt
I was so looking forward to seeing him at Wanaka next April
Thanks Ray – I will always remember him as the Legend at Legends
Regards
John
Melve
I am in syria but from memory it was much faster in a dive than a rewind clobbermiester but only once per aircraft as it shed its wings in the attempt
Kindest regards
JP
Hi there
I believe it was one of a batch of Canadian fire bombers – 3 of which are/have come/ing to Australia – doesn’t have bomb bay doors or turret if that the case
regards
John P
Hi Skyraider
Well I am in awe of your work and I only just saw these – excellent and very interesting – I wouldn’t have thought it the most nimble of aircraft – a bit like a Ta152 in concept?
Regards
John P