Surely it is more home grown than the “Joint” Development J-17?:D

Here we go, just a matter of time till a Troll introduced a non -relevant subject matter. Mods? :confused:

More info on the AH-1Z

http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/aircraft/military/bellAH-1Z.cfm

Capable. Flexible. Multi-mission. The ultimate in attack helicopters. The powerful AH-1Z delivers state of the art dynamics, weapons and avionics to incorporate the latest in survivability. With anti-armor capability, it engages and defeats the broadest array of threats at standoff ranges that defy imagination.

Standard configuration utilizes the T700-GE-401 engine.

Weapons Capability
AGM-114A, B, and C Hellfire and anti-tank missiles up to 16 total
AGM-114F Hellfire anti-ship missiles – up to 16 total
70mm Rockets, 19 or 7 shot pods –up to 76 total
AIM-9 Sidewinder*
(*A superior supersonic air-to-air missile with infrared target detection for fire and forget capability.)
LUU-2A/B nighttime illumination flare
Mk 77 fire bombs
77 and 100 gallon external auxiliary fuel tanks
20 mm cannon
(With a higher muzzle velocity and flatter trajectory for better accuracy, it is capable of handling M50-series rounds designed specifically for air-to-air combat)
MK 76 practice bombs
BDU-33D/B practice bombs
MK 106 practice bombs
Survivability & Crashworthiness

Like no other attack helicopter in the world, the AH-1Z survives combat with an advanced countermeasure suite, which includes:

AVR-2A Laser Warning Receiver
APR-39A(v) 2 Radar Warning Receiver
ALE-47 “Smart” Countermeasures Dispenser and
AAR-47 Missile Warning Device.
…and the latest airframe technologies, such as:

Energy attenuating crashworthy seats
Energy-absorbing landing gear
Self sealing fuel tanks and fuel systems
Fuel vapor inerting systems
Mass retention designs to ensure major components stay where they should in the event of a crash, and many other advanced features.

Modern Technology

The AH-1Z is a design for the 21st century. Produced to meet the stringent requirements of the USMC today – its aircraft design brings together proven AH-1W airframe reliability, a new composite four bladed rotor system and powerful T700-GE-401engines. With virtually identical front and rear cockpits, fully integrated weapons, avionics and communications systems the AH-1Z flies with the most advanced aircraft survivability equipment in the world. The AH-1Z is truly state-of-the-art.

Best Targeting System

Target identification is critical in the complex post-cold war and urban conflict environments. The AH-1Z Target Sight System (TSS) incorporates a third-generation FLIR and currently provides the longest range, lowest jitter and highest weapons’ accuracy possible of any helicopter sight in the world. In addition, the completely passive and automatic system scans the battlefield without emitting trackable radar, positively identifying and tracking multiple targets at ranges beyond the maximum range of its weapons system.

Helmet Mounted Sight and Display System

The “Top Owl” Helmet Mounted Sight and Display (HMS/D) system supports improved communication and reduced cockpit workload. Manufactured by THALES Avionics, the TopOwl HMS/D is the most technically advanced helmet available. Upgradeable “in-service” and as additional requirements develop, it combines both avionics function with the aircrew life support and protection into a single unit.

Maintenance

Designed for lower maintenance, with the helicopter mechanic in mind, the AH-1Z is one of the most reliable aircraft made. Maintenance features of the AH-1Z include:

Fault detection sensors that facilitate “on-condition” maintenance
Interactive Electronic Technical Manuals
Better accessibility
Elimination of certain maintenance tasks
Less maintenance man hours per flight hour
Less spares storage requirement
Modern Cockpit

Identical front and rear cockpits provide the true ability to fly and fight from either cockpit, so there’s no need to have separate training programs for front or back seaters.

The Hands on Collective and Stick (HOCAS) side-stick architecture, allows pilot function without removing hands from the collective flight controls. Color displays are large, multifunctional and combined with the moving-map technology. Helmet mounted displays provide all the information required to engage the enemy more quickly and accurately.

H1 Program Commonality

Shared dynamics and nearly identical cockpits vastly reduces the logistical tail, procurement and training costs required to support a large fleet of mixed type aircraft. The AH-1Z and UH-1Y have 84% commonality with identical components.

Just as the AH-1W is being rebuilt and redesigned into the AH-1Z, the US Marine Corps Huey helicopters are being rebuilt and redesigned as well. The traditional reliability of the Huey series now contributes to the outstanding performance, state-of-the-art dynamics and avionics of the H1 Program.

Might make sense for the IAF to append these to a new LIFT pool and save on training hours when trainees go to supersonic aircraft for the first time after a Hawk. I mean Hawk->LCA LIFT ->Su-30/MiG-29/Mirage/Jaguar may turn out both cheaper and more effective in the long run versus Hawk-> directly to the combat squadrons with fully supersonic aircraft and more advanced avionics (eg radar).

Er….what!? I think you are just trying to plug a gap here that does not exist in the first place.

The very reason for Hawk purchase was to act as a LIFT and lead trainees straight to fighters. The exact job it does for air forces world wide. Are you now saying it is not capable of doing that?

You are the one getting hypothetical thinking that China will come to Pakistan’s Aid. I am just reminding you that we also have friends 😉

Oh and Happy New Year to you too 😀

Where did I say China will come to Pakistan’s aid?

China may start a war with India irrespective of what Pakistan does or does not do.

India V China tensions are well documented. China may pose a threat in its own right. Every Indian defence official acknowledges this. Nothing do do with who is who’s friend.

Anyhow, thats getting away from the subject matter of this thread.

😀 .. Is that what you wanted to say all this while??
Man, you should have come out and said it right at the start.
….Jesus ….. 😀

Regards,
Ashish.

Er…dude. You were just going on about how all cruise missiles would be shot down with Indian radar coverage. I made my point that this coverage is far from complet and hence teh same way Brahmos is a threat to Pakistan (you claimed this earlier in the thread) Babrbur is a similar threat to India.
This is reinforcing my point that Pakistan has caught up in many areas.

Highlighting my words will not detract from you losing the argument.

Its states both actually. So I am partially right. But I agree. More proof would be nice. And let me ask a couple of guys around.

I guess the bit of CAG report being 2 years out of date, slipped through the cracks.

And the statement you make, that no country in the world can prevent all cruise missile attacks, as per you is trivially true.
I can accept that.

So.
1. No country in the world can defend against all attacks including India and Pakistan.
2. The 47% figure is from a CAG report thats two years out-of-date and the report is one year old.
3. We have a one year old Minister statement but simultaneously the stuff that I quoted has been also ordered. (This is just surveillance stuff. I have not even mentioned the Spyder systems ordered or the MRSAM)

So, India’s coverage is improving. The question is now is how much % coverage is remaining.
Dunno. So can’t answer that.

So I guess you can be happy with an 3-year old CAG report that India’s coverage is really bad and I can be happy that more orders are already being placed. (For eg 2 Aerostats for Indian Navy) ….. 😀

Regards,
Ashish

Ashish

No order has been placed for 3 more Phalcons. You can ask Israelis as well if you want. Lets not start making things up.

So, like it our not a 700k ranged Barbur is indeed a threat, especially considering this has now been tested and operationliased and in hands of Pakistan Army.

Even a report a year old gives us more indication of the real state of Indian radar coverage then any internet chat ever will. As mentioned I am sure India is making efforts to improve this, but I can only go by what your government state.

“Dunno. So can’t answer that. ” Thats exactly my point.

I think you all are just over-emphasizing the impact the Erieye will have on the battlefield. In case of War all 3 Phalcons the IAF will have will be in the Western theater. Not to mention a number of Su 30 MKIs equiped with Russian Anti-Awacs missiles.

The only reason why a follow on order of 3 Phalcons is not placed is because I think the IAF is looking for a better/cheaper to operate platform than the IL 76.

There will be a delay of 2 or so years (New RFP and all that) but they will be here well within the time frame.

Again you are downplaying the capabilities India has on this field with the large number of home grown radars being inducted. The MR-SAM, Akash and SPYDER will give multi-layered coverage and their associated Radars are capable of detecting and intercepting cruise missiles.

The Head of the Indian Army is recently on record saying that India must be prepared to fight China and Pakistan at the same time. During war, if all 3 Phalcons are dedicated to Western theatre then that will give China a massive edge. I dont know IAF operational plans in this case, neither do you I suppose.

We dont even know when they plan to issue a new RFP, so lets not assume delivery timetables already.

I dont doubt some of your kit is capable of detecting cruise missiles and may even be lucky enough to shoot some down, but detect all of them and shoot them all down!? I cannot think of a single country on earth that can do that. Even the United States!

Sigh …. Do not take it literally… Something to this effect ..

Link : Kargil Conflict and PAF.

Yes, I hold the same view for all US equipment usually.
Strange. I have seen that view repeated so many times in general by Pakistani guys. Why take offense??

:rolleyes: .. Did you even read whats Muns and I posted?? Erieye will be safe. What about the strike packages going in?? They cannot have their ecm pods reprogrammed till they are back at their base. They might take a few losses that could have been avoided.

😀 … This is a pretty neat technique in Mathematics too, do you know that? If you can’t solve a given problem, create a related problem that you can solve.

6 months from now is gonna create a problem, dude.
Anyway, then you might as well remove J-10s, bulk of JF-17s, additional F-16s (apart from the 46 F-16s) … Of these 46 F-16s, remove 4 that are undergoing MLU in Fort Worth, Texas because they will be coming back only by Dec 2011. So you would have only F-16s A/B in your kitty.

Most of Spada-2000s. Thats coming after 6 months and PAF will be testing in spring.
Good luck with the Eriyes for the next 6 months. You just lost most of your teeth.

Hence my initial suggestion about middle of next decade when the dust of change would have settled down a bit more.

Pray quote me where I said new refuellers will be coming. That discussion was of AEW&C.

Not range. Speed. Babur can be intercepted with early warning. Brahmos currently cannot even with early warning.

Do not worry. I am not here for one-upmanship game.
If my posts rock your world, then I am pretty happy continuing the discussion with other guys.

I don’t know. If you guys are comfortable with your F-16s, fine. As I said in my post, what I suggested was detrimental to my interest. So I am actually glad if you do not agree with it…:D

Regards,
Ashish.

PS: I did not make any point with respect to Kerry Luger bill or India getting preferential treatment.

I did take it literally, how else was I supposed to take a statement like “F-16s will be usless in war”.

You made the statement and now you backtrack by saying dont take it literally. If you make sweeping statements you cannot substantiate, I would advise not making them at all.

No one is taking any offense, every Pakistani on this forum will agree that US is not a very reliable ally.

Erieye will have enough power to jam IAF near teh border, you are right, strike packages may need upgrading, but they will not be flying that deep into India.

Again, you post without taking into account facts. 18 Bloakc 52 will be all delivered by June 2010. As per PAF ACM interview. We will also get 16 JF-17s and 3 more Erieyes.

Thats the equivelent of a small modern air force being delivered to PAF next year.

It was Muns, not you who claimed 6 more refullers are in the pipleine, on the very same day that this tender was actually cancelled by IAF. Apologies, his bad, not yours.

Yes, you are right, Bhrahmos has speed that will give it a certain advantage, its a good weapon no doubt. However I dont see India having the capability to detect a large number of low flying, terrain hugging cruise missiles, let alone intercept them.

This puts almost every IAF and Indian army instilation within 700km of border in range.

Lets also not forget we have air launched RAAD cruise missile test fired. I believe Brahmos has been seen in its air luanched version……..still on a miniture model SU-30 right?

You do indeed “rock my world” :p

Its fun helping to put away some myths!

So, back to some unanswed claims about IAF.

Order for 3 more Phalcons placed = NO
Tender for more Air refullers cancelled = YES
Working flyable prototype of homemade AWACs = NO

Yet some posters here claim these things are “in the pipeline or being delivered”. Can you see how myths and lies can be spread on this forum?