I personally consider a CASA 111 is better than nothing in terms of the IWM displaying representative types of the most important air battle in the history of the UK?, (perhaps one of the most important air battles of military history?) and that seems a worthy topic of IWM coverage?

“Bombing” was the key component of the German side of the battle so while the 109 is the obvious adversary to display against the Hurricane and the Spitfire, the He 111 was the real mainstay of the German offensive and a CASA 111 is better than nothing.

If reproduction/replica WW1 aircraft can be displayed in museums such as RAFM Hendon, if wood or fibreglass full scale mockups have a role, if B-25J’s can be re-worked as B-25C’s and presented in Doolittle raid colours at museums such as NMUSAF, or has already been stated above, many “trainer” or post war peacetime examples of types can be presented as more famous wartime “combat” identities, or ex RAAF Spitfires or Beaufighters can be presented in USAF colours or identities? again in the NMUSAF as are many other “foreign” aircraft presented in other “national colours” to fill local collection holes, then what is wrong with a licence built 111 being presented as a BoB He 111 – with, or without Jumo’s fitted.

Regardless of the Jumo’s being available, if the major distraction is the deep chin cowls of the merlins surely the existing engines and cowls could be removed and stored, and a set of mockup cowls could be produced over new build mounting frames designed to take the weight of the cowls and props without engines in place?, without the need to source engines and accurately replicate the full Firewall forward internally?, there is no need to try and make it authentic down to the last bolt since it still “wont” really be an authentic He 111.

Its not what it “really” is, but it can still be representative of the type, without misleading the public, nothing wrong in a museum doing that to educate and inform, and yes in this competitive world even “entertaining” the general public.

Personally I would simply paint it in a representative BoB colour scheme but intact as a CASA 111 with its Merlins and cowls, support it with a display board that briefly tells the history of the CASA and its technical differences, and then goes on to explain the large role the He 111 played in the Battle of Britain, and in that way would consider it very relevent.

The RAF Museum has an authentic He 111, and the IWM CASA left intact provides a technical comparison to that for those of us who count rivets and wish to see the differences, but to the General public they both would represent the BoB Enemy bomber, the villan in the story, and hence part of the story to be told.

Museums are there to preserve and display collections, but also to entertain, educate and tell the story of history, that can be done with photos, scale models, diorama’s, FSMs, replicas, imposters or the real thing, but something is better than nothing, and the CASA is certainly better than nothing in my mind.

regards

Mark Pilkington

Well said Mark, exactly as I and ‘Creaking Door’ have related. I can’t see the point of going to all that effort and expense of acquiring and fitting Jumo engines just for ther sake of cosmetic appearance. To my mind, it would always be a CASA 2.111 regardless of what engines are fitted. If the purists want to see it in an ‘operational’ scheme than the film one, then I would be quite happy to see it painted all over silver with light blue undersides and full Spanish Air Force markings – it is what it is! Anything would be better than seeing a sad wingless unrestored fuselage sat amongst all the pristine warbirds in the same hangar year after year.

My dad and I went to this airshow. It was a good one. A Beverly pushed crates out the back at low level, one crate broke up.A Lighting had permision to brake the sound barrier i think? A very good day.

Dave

Dave -I think you’re getting confused over another show as there was no Beverley is the flying display at the June 68 Abingdon show. Also there was no Lightning breaking the sound barrier there …’she’ would not be amused!

Personally I don’t really see the point of trying to convert it to Jumo engines apart from getting rid of the ghastly shape of the Merlin-engined version. In addition the conversion would be difficult, costly and time-consuming and there are much more worthy recipients of the limited resources of the IWM (Shackleton / Victor).

I take the point of ‘the history of preserving history’ and agree that preserving actual history is more important but wouldn’t this one aberration of a preserved movie prop (and real aircraft) be in a rather fitting location? It is appropriate to the Battle-of-Britain (OK, as a He111 anyway) and it is on a real preserved (and likely to be the only one) Battle-of-Britain airfield and there is no chance whatsoever of getting anything more appropriate to represent the enemy bombers, it is appropriate to the Battle-of-Britain film at Duxford, and it is a good exhibit as a real aircraft in its own right.

Well said! That’s exactly how I see it! If we can have a Buchon in Battle of Britain film markings then, why not a CASA 2.111 to join it? It would play a dual role as a ‘He-111’ to the less knowledgable general public and be correctly finished in colours that it flew in.

However it isnt part of ‘Imperial’ military history. The IWM is mostly concerned with conflicts which had something to do with the British Isles, so unless a point is stretched, and it becomes a Jumo Heinkel, its relevance is questionable.

Bruce

If that theory was true, why restore a Mosquito to a target-tug configuration? Also many of the aircraft preserved in the big hangar by IWM are nothing to do with conflicts involving the British Isles?

Chaps,

I just found another cine film from my Dad’s time in the RAF.

This one shows what looks like a practice for the EIIR flypast. It shows MANY silver & dayglo Jet Provosts taxying, taking-off, practicing & landing. I haven’t counted the aircraft in the film, but can believe there are over 30 shown. Definately shot in 1968, probably from Dishforth ( where else would all these aircraft have been together ? )

Enjoy !

http://youtu.be/XyF5wXFuHuI

Steve, I think you’ll find they operated from Cranwell. They later formed a ’50’ formation over Farnborough in September of that year.

Intriguing – I recall a recent Royal event (ie in the last two years) when the whole caboodle came over Oxford in a rather stretched formation – BBMF, Tornados, Typhoons, the lot, heading for Brize. Today we just got the Hercs and the HS-125s, then several hours later the Red Sparrows flew NE of Oxford going who knows where.

Adrian

I was on the approach to Brize Norton, as previous years the flypast has been extended over there to co-incide with Brize’s Families Day also. Met a few others there who expected the same thing, only to discover Brize had postponed its Families Day ‘for operational reasons’ – probably to incorporate the Lyneham Squadrons moving there next month . Consequently, no Royal flypast with only the two Hercules from the formation arriving and landing. Plenty of VC10s and TriStars on the ground, so I’m sure they could have spared one in the formation!
Oh but we were treated to the Tiger Club’s formation of four Turbulents overflying the airfield from south to north (going where?) so that’s about as good as it got! 😮

Blimey those ARE rare! Any idea of the dates those were taken and how long the IL-62 was leased for?

Whilst Provost T.1s did serve in the Sultan of Oman’s Air Force (SOAF) your Provost wasn’t one of them (as far as I know…)

Neither was it in WW2 used by the Japanese Air Force, yet you would be surprised how owners can desecrate an authentic colour scheme for the sake of vanity? I have a slide of WW397 in those very colours! 😮