Just like Eagle says..the gradual development from Block 1 to 3 is already planned from beginning of the project. However what is not in detail now is how big the difference between Block 1 to following Blocks.
Independent commission has been put in Indonesia to assess the project with one of the topics that information on the difference between Block 1 and following Blocks will be quite substantial, that Block 1 can’t be upgraded later on to following Blocks.
For that, the commission give recommendation that participation to the initial batch (I presumed Block 1) will be limited on 1 SQ (16 fighters) only.Again, I only read comment from Indonesian media, thus not have detail on how KAI plan on doing development stages. One thing so far, Indonesian participation as Junior Partner still on, but they are in negotiation on stages on development participation..which from what I heard related on development progression between various Blocks.
Initial agreement is for DI involved with KAI on Block 1 development..seems now Indonesian wants to negotiate also on how to progress on following Blocks.
The thing is that even between the Korean government, ROKAF, and KAI, the current KF-X/IF-X development program only covers Block 1 development. Nobody has officially sanctioned or paid for Block 2 or 3. So PTDI can collaborate for Block 2 and Block 3, but that has to be a sperate agreement.
I read from some source in DI, that stated KAI lead design team already plan that the Block 1 and Block 2 difference will be quite significant. Not only IWB but also the amount of composite materials in air frame..This related on level of LO difference from Block 1 to Block 2. In such Block 1 still consider gen 4.5+ and Block 2 will be genuine gen 5.
can you confirm this from Korean sources ?
I only consider something true when there is official documentation or an actual person related to the company that is quoted. So in terms of the details, nothing is confirmed. We know the plan is to steadily improve from Block 1 to 2 to 3, but the timeline and exactly what is included in each block is not confirmed. That KAI is planning to upgrade the fighter with IWB is obvious, but in terms of other technical details we have no reliable information. People have guessed that composites/radar-absorbing-structure is part of the upgrades, along with conformal antennas, uprated F414 engines, internal EOTS and so on.
Does it carry AIM-120 internal or with semi recessed station? Or both at the same time?
Semi-recessed first. Possible development and addition of IWB later. (Most definitely not at the same time)
The inlet duct section profile looks so much like the ones on the Rafale. I wonder if they had some shared work with Dassault there. Also, the depth of the WB cutout is remarkable. That would call for a lot of bracing in traditional manufacturing tech. I guess that the traversing wing carry through box will take all the load with a composite structure.
I think the similarity of the duct is more coincidence than anything, the way a rectangular inlet is twisted into a circular shape right before the engine has to be primarily driven by CFD and tests.
Possibly. A lot of the KF-X will be made of good old aluminium alloy, however. It reduces technical risk and also manufacturing costs. (The trade-off being the KF-X having a higher empty weight than contemporary standards may dictate)
I myself have doubt on whether 2026 “deadline” can be achieved. It’s just natural for rather protracted development of this kind of aircraft. Especially with its technological content and snags in acquiring key technologies (Indonesian news mentioned 4 key technologies like RF-jammers, AESA, IRST’s and Targeting Pod). We may have seen demonstrators being made. but still a bit long way until we can see it onboard.
I would expect several first prototypes would fly without radars or full suite of avionics.
The only real enemy here is whether the aircraft can still be made up-to date. according to current threat while being affordable. Once the specifications are frozen, there would almost be no way back.
It would still be a good boost tho. and valuable lesson for Block II.
There are no snags and even if there were they wouldn’t affect the deadline. Only maybe the AESA might, and then if it is seen to be a complete failure one can always be bought from the US/Europe/Israel.
From ROK TV. The first fuselage component, which indicates KFX already entering prototype production stage.
The video shown KFX with internal bays of 4 of AIM 120 class. Don’t understand Korean, this not sure if the internal bays now still on batch 2 as previously planned.
The plan was always to have the space for the IWBs but not to build/integrate them until later, this has not changed.
It’s kind of like if you bought an Iphone and tinkered with it. That’s okay. But then if you start branding your modified Iphone the ‘Iphone-RX’ or something and selling them, you’re going to have a problem with Apple.
1. The funding hasn’t impacted the program’s progress in any way. The Korean government and KAI have continued funding and the work hasn’t stopped, it’s just that Indonesia has racked up a ‘debt’.
2. The Indonesian engineers aren’t responsible for anything crucial, they are there to receive tech transfer and to design Indonesian localization.
3. ‘Trouble acquiring needed technology’ is exceedingly vague, what is this technology, what is the nature of the trouble, and what will the impact be.
You can’t say there are issues without answering these questions.
What part of the article points towards the program being a mess? What is the current state of the program in your view?
The Engines will be the most major subsystem (F414 engines from GE to be produced by Hanwha Aerospace). There are 4 categories components have been put into.
1. Total Indigenous Development and Production
2. Foreign Development assistance and Indigenous Production
3. Licensed Production of Foreign components
4. Purchase of Foreign components
Here is a list of all known US and UK companies with contracts for the KF-X.
US:
https://www.utcaerospacesystems.com/news-releases/critical-content-for-kf-x-fighter/
http://ir.triumphgroup.com/node/9006
https://texstars.com/texstars-to-develop-canopy-and-windshield-transparencies-for-the-kf-x-fighter/
UK:
http://www.oxleygroup.com/news/Oxley-Wins-Development-Contract-For-KF-X-Fighter
http://www.cobham.com/mission-systems/oxygen-systems/news/cobham-wins-kf-x-multirole-fighter-oxygen-system-contract/
https://www.meggitt.com/news/multi-million-dollar-contract-kf-x-advanced-total-braking-system/
http://martin-baker.com/2018/03/23/martin-baker-wins-kf-x-ejection-seat-competition/
boo. no bays, no stealth.
Maybe in a later variant. Have to reduce development time, cost, risk.
Here is an actual official press-release that is openly available (unfortunately only in Korean) on the website of a government agency.
Link: http://www.dapa.go.kr/dapa/na/ntt/selectNttInfo.do?bbsId=326&nttSn=30531&menuId=678
[ATTACH=CONFIG]261242[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]261243[/ATTACH]
Summary: PDR is complete, EMD will start, AESA Radar development continues, Re-affirms early 2021 roll-out of #1 and first flight in late 2022 and end of development in 2026.
Edit: CDR is scheduled for completion September next year, seems very ambitious.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]261244[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]261245[/ATTACH]
Pictured: (Above) The KF-X C109 configuration that has been developed for Milestone B.
@EagleSpirit the above magazine article was written just before the Heads of Agreement was signed with BaE systems on 28 January 2017. That is, during the negotiations with BaE systems.
The BAE Systems Replica was discussed during the pre-contract study phase between BAE Systems and TAI well before 2017.
You would note that the TF-X indigenous design and development program prime contract between Undersecretariat for Defence Industries (SSM) of Ministry of Turkish National Defence and Turkish Aerospace Industries Inc. (TAI) has been signed on 5th of August 2016. See https://www.tai.com.tr/en/product/milli-muharip-ucak
Hence, the magazine article corresponds with the time frame during which TAI began discussing the TF-X with BAE Systems.
I can’t help but realize you haven’t directly addressed a single thing I’ve said. Give me at least No 2.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]261188[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]261189[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]261190[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]261191[/ATTACH]
Turkish Aerospace Industries Magazine confirms that the TF-X will use the BAe Systems Replica program as a technological base for the TF-X.
So it looks as though, like the T129 program, Turkey has purchased the Intellectual Property Rights for the Bae Systems Replica program and is developing it further with Turkish-Subsystems and new technologies (co-developed with BAE Systems and Rolls-Royce) to create the TF-X.
On page two of the magazine one can see the prototype of the BAE Systems Replica (also reproduced below).
[ATTACH=CONFIG]261192[/ATTACH]
1. That particular addition of the webzine is from 2016.
2. There is nothing that backs up your first assertion anywhere to be seen (please provide a quote from the webzine in Turkish that backs your claim)
3. Your following assertions seem to be baseless, optimistic speculation unless you have actual official documentation.
@Deino it was clearly written above in my post that Dassault is Turkish Aerospace Industries partner for the mission computer software development effort. It is also well known that the primary partner is BAE Systems. In fact, close sources to Turkish defence officials are saying that BAE Systems itself recommended Dassault for the Software component.
Dassault Systèmes and Dassault Aviation are different companies. I think I have already been over this. There isn’t any ‘partnership’ TAI will be a enterprise level customer for Dassault Systèmes for computer programs like CATIA used for 3D modeling/design. Congratulations Turkey is using a credible software solution that every engineering company in the world uses, big deal. Even the bloody link you posted has that, where are you getting ‘mission computer’ crap from. And wouldn’t any mission computer partner sign with AELSAN or HAVELSAN, is TAI doing the avionics as well?
A perfect opportunity for a third nation to jump in: low investment, maximum bargaining power, excellent perspective of RoI (think tech, knowledge and $).
Don’t think there is anyone that would be willing other than Saudi Arabia or the UAE.