from your link:

“Performance

Maximum thrust: 51.2 kilonewtons (11,500 lbf) dry; 86.37 kilonewtons (19,420 lbf) with afterburner”

19something to 22 is about 15% difference

In any case, for you and PLA-MKII

it’s not bashing chinese technology to notice that announced achievment is not exactly revolutionary.

The engine can reach high thrust by either moving lots of air, or by heating it to very high temperatures (increasing the pressure and, therefore, accelerating the exhaust) To do the first, you need a wide engine, and is relatively easy to do. to do the second, you need to master the specific metallurgy domains which will allow you to make parts able to sustain these high temperatures.

In the case of WS-13, it has a 25% larger fan than a Sencma M53 (meaning it sucks a lot more air) and yet, it manages to provide 8.6T of thrust, which is the same as the initial version of the M53

obviously, if it moves more air for the same result, the pressure inside (and, therefore, the temperatures of hot parts it uses) are significantly lower -> which is a clear indication that the manufacturer still lags behind in technology that would allow him to build a better performing engine.

And the fact of making the J-20, as such, means only one thing: they have enough money to do so.

What counts for the F-22 (and the J-20) is what’s inside, not the general shape.

– What’s its real radar signature? nobody outside chinese test people knows

– What are its electronics really capable of? nobody outside chinese test people knows it either

In the end, for all we know, they had the money to make an “F-22-looking aircraft” but how it will perform in real world, only time will tell

Your just denying “China’s industrial and technological leap forward”:rolleyes: Although more eloquently than I.

The key element here is “remains to be seen” until then all such claims of the abject inferiority of Chinese technology is suspect. China can build the J-20, it certainly can build something approximately in the class of the F-414.
____

Another common element between the JFT and Gripen is that the next block of both planes will be called “NG”

Except the technology of the J-20 itself is suspect so unless we know the level of advancement in the J-20 we will never know.
And also Stealthy Airframe = F-414 class Engines is a hilarious statement.

So there was this article
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2012/03/205_106346.html

and now our DAPA (Defence Acquisition Programme Agency) Aircraft division has a reply

http://www.dapa.go.kr/internet/information/major_business_plan/fighter_03.jsp?mode=readForm&boardCode=BDADMI24&curPage=1&searchField=TITLE&searchWord=&articleSeq=10288

“한국 공군의 차기전투기사업(F-X)에서 가장 유력한 기종으로 꼽히고 있는 록히드마틴사의 F-35″ 라는 부분에 대해서, 업체가 제안서도 제출하지 않은 현 시점에서 특정 업체나 기종이 유력하다고 언급하는 것 자체가 옳지 않습니다.

(“The LM F-35 is considered the most preferred for the ROKAF F-X program” Companies have not submitted a proposal at this point so to mention that a particular vendor or model is preferred in itself is wrong.)

“F-35를 선정할 경우 개발지연으로 인해 도입일정에 차질이 불가피 할 것”이라는 부분에 대해서는, 평가과정에서 우리의 도입일정을 충족하지 못하는 기종은 탈락시킬 것입니다.

(“If the F-35 is selected development delays will make the delay of the (F-35s) introduction inevitable.” During the evaluation process if any model does not meet our introduction schedule will be eliminated.)

“록히드마틴사의 F-35 전투기가 선정될 경우 납품에 지연이 발생되어도 이에 따른 손해배상을 청구하기 힘들 것” 이라는 언급에 대해서는 어떤 기종이 선정되던 계약서에 명시된 납품 시기를 충족하지 못할 경우 지체상금 부과를 포함한 각종 제재조치(制裁措置)를 취할 계획입니다.

(“If Lockheed Martin’s F-35 fighter is selected even if delivery delays occurs a compensation would be difficult” Whichever model is selected if delivery times specified in the contract are not met various sanctions, including the imposition of various sanctions(制裁 措置) including liquidated damages is planned to take place.)

Keep in mind the korean and english articles (from the KT) are different so you won’t find the quotes from my translation (which is bad but I wanted to keep the most about of meaning even with some broken English)

Also there are similar ones replying for different things like f-35 external weapons and FMS and the LM guy saying that we promised to buy the F-35. (So ask if you want some)

According to “Multirole” almost every powers of today should change their flags. After all UK and France used to be colonialist powers who did many crimes against humanity, they also used to practice slavery under the same flags. Then maybe the Japanese and German should also change their language since after all it was the same language used during the fascist era. Their neighbour are probably still traumatised just by hearing them. Maybe USA should also changed its flag after using two atomic weapons against Japan after all under today’s standard the use of weapons of mass destruction against a non nuclear power is a crime against humanity…
Now just to complete the picture maybe we should all change our skin colour to blue… After all just look at that picture, next to the flag of the rising sun you see these very familiar people… don’t they look just like Japanese of nowadays ?:o:rolleyes:

Well the world image of the other countries have changed (cept for in the ME) while in Asia (call them uptight nationalistic idiots) the Japan of WW2 is the Japan of today still.

djcross – You make an important point, but can I add some qualifications?

At 70 km, you’re talking rockets, so the JFAC or equivalent on the ground has only that one blunt, heavy instrument to call in.

Guns can run to 50 km with base-bleed (maybe more with guidance and modified trajectory) – but that is still pushing 120 sec time of flight, so a lot can happen between the time that the JFAC clears fire and the metal arrives.

So even if you tether the unit to 70 km of a firebase (and you rely on your communications) there is still a role for CAS.

Our (korean) Munitions maker Poongsan have guided 155mm shells with 100km range by adding 4 fins and 2 wings.

Ready for what, flight testing? :rolleyes:

There are other projects out there, but if they’re not flying already, they wont be in service before 2018.

Excellent someone else brought this up so I don’t look like a fanoboy. Maybe it is me but nothing is set in stone about japan’s fighter development future. ATD-X is a tech demonstrator F-3 will be the real thing and no one knows what will happen (if they do it will be good).

So what I am asking is what do you mean by “build” the next fighter. Do tech demonstrators or prototypes count? If it is production/induction after the J-20 it will be a toss up between the AMCA and KFX.

1. Korea is not thinking about joint development that seriously. Money? Tech? Yes but not major support (R&D).
2. I think it switched back to stealth but yea it will never be even near F-35 level. High LO/ Low VLO is my bet but internal stores are not set in stone.