And the relevance with F-35 News, Multimedia & Discussion thread (3) is?
The Growler story.
Neither, it was lost because the Serbs shot back, and a loaded bomber can’t dodge.
The solution is a constant suppression of air defenses, but that requires huge amount of resources,
and i think the way to go if you got the resources is ever loitering platforms above intended air space, with long endurance UAV
Or MALD-J.
Oh Good Lord not this all over again!
The F-117A shot down in 1999 was not lost due to a lack of EW support! It was lost due to poor mission planning, the aircraft flew down a strike corridor that had been used more then once. The Serbian defence forces placed an Sa-3 battery fitted out with a thermal camera on that strike corridor and managed to get lucky.
The USAF DID NOT CHANGE its mission tactics around the use of EW support after this shoot down. It was a silly mistake down to poor mission planning combined with some clever thinking by the Serbians around placement of their Sa-3 launchers.
First it was Greek spies alerting the Serbians and now other excuses.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20209770
But on the night of 27 March 1999 he was uncomfortable. Weather conditions meant the stealth fighters would not have their usual escort of “Prowler” electronic jamming planes or F16s firing anti-radar missiles.
“I’d never felt so strongly – if there was ever a night, a mission for an F117 to get shot down, it would be this one. I wasn’t surprised when it happened,” he says.
‘Nice shot’
Zoltan Dani had problems of his own. He commanded a unit which was low on resources and vulnerable to attack by the F16s. But his men were not short on morale or skill.
Each night he would move his unit from place to place – operating the equipment in 20-second bursts to avoid the attention of anti-radar missiles.
Citing Serbian electronics genius Nikola Tesla as an inspiration, Zoltan had the equipment modified so it would operate beyond the usual wavelengths.
My word JSR that is a blatant troll comment there. The MBDA METEOR is not a failed program by any measure, the missile is in the pre-production phase and completed multiple test firings unguided and guided.
I imagine the only thing they’re waiting on is the CAPTOR-E. It kind of makes sense to only integrate the Meteor once rather than twice.
How about recent additional fighters brought to the east near by NATO:
US F-15C x6 in Lithuania
Polish Mig-29 x4 in Lithuania
British Typhoons x4 in Lithuania
French Raphale x4 in Poland
U.S F-16×12 in Poland
Canadian F-18C x6 in Romania
Danish F-16 x4 in EstoniaThats 40 fighters recenty added, plus air tankers, and full support crews. I’m sure Russians are not ignoring it.
All airbases within Iskander range. Best way to neutralise air power – prevent it from taking off and landing.
Not to mention the T3 tests in September last year, in which both boeing and raytheon demonstrated an air launched air breathing BVR missile against a drone targets, cruise missiles etc.
Any links to tests on their websites?
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2014/05/25/how-boeings-growler-just-delivered-a-blow-to-lockh/
Seems that there will be 5 Growlers for FYI 2015.
Has been the case for some time. Stealth without EW isn’t stealth. Case in point, Serbia 1999, F-117A – flew without EW aircraft, got shot down by an SA-3 (1960s system).
Multi Mode seeker can mean different things. It could be a seeker that uses different modes. The SM6 for example has an active and a semi active mode. The brimstone uses multiple targeting capabilities, as does the SDB II. One cannot judge ‘superiority’ through nomenclature. A multi mode seeker for example can have the RF component that is AESA
Just to add to that, HOJ could be considered an extra mode.
Unfortunately, rumor from flateric is that the ramjet 180, or 180-PD, has been halted.
So the Meateater (Meteor) will have the show to itself.
Hi all…
I have questions about advanced seekers…
1) What is a “Multimode seeker”?
2) How work a “Multimode seeker” compared with the classic “Active radar homing”?
3) What is the difference between “AESA seeker” (will be integrated into the Russian “K-77M”) and “Multimode seeker” (will be integrated into the American “CUDA”)?
4) What is the most advanced seeker?
Greetings
A multi-mode seeker uses more than one form of guidance. E.g. Brimstone I/II uses laser guidance and MMW radar, so it’s regarded as dual mode. It also uses INS/GPS but that’s really just to give it a steer although weapon manufacturers regard it as a separate mode.
In the case of the Cuda, I’m not sure. It doesn’t seem to have IIR from models, so maybe it’s just different wavebands for the radar; if that is the case, it’s probably going to be AESA. So essentially ARH but using AESA radar and different wavebands (probably for different ranges). Higher frequency gives better resolution and accuracy but at the cost of range. It’s unclear whether it will use 2 frequencies simultaneously or switch from one to the other. Simultaneous use would make jamming difficult.
Asking for the most advanced seeker is honestly like asking who the best employee in the world is. Best seeker for what task, at what range, in what conditions? Even then, you’d only be able to discuss type rather than try to sift through manufacturer claims and highlight reality vs fiction.
As a CAS AGM it would be difficult to claim there’s a better seeker head than Brimstone II right now. All weather, very difficult to jam, lock after launch, autonomous lock after launch based on search and target details etc. As regards AAMs and SAMs, damned if I could even hazard guess. Fixed target cruise missiles? JASSM, Storm Shadow and KEPD 350 seekers are all pretty much on-par, state-of-the-art, let’s go through the square window seekers.
‘Range’ is a funny old thing. It depends on target altitude, speed, manoeuvrability, approaching or leaving. E.g.:

Are you quoting kinetic range, effective range and if the latter, what Pk parameters are you setting. You are right in that some stated ranges make no sense because specification writers work to different requirements and are essentially quoting different parameters in many cases. Often a no-escape zone is mentioned, but ‘no escape zone’ against what? A bomber, a typical fighter, a Mig-31, an SR-71?
Detection range is also a factor. This depends on radar size, power, wavelength/band, type (e.g. AESA or PESA etc.), processing power. Are we talking about detection or targeting? OTH capabilities, provided by OTH radar, airborne radar, satellites etc.?
As you rightfully said, guidance control, and trajectory also plays a part, as does the propulsion system. E.g. a Meteor was said to have 3 times the no escape zone of an AMRAAM C-7 in AirForces Monthly. It has ramjet propulsion, so doesn’t need to carry oxidiser internally and it can also vary its speed to maximise range and optimise intercepts, which also helps relative to solid rocket propulsion. Add a bigger booster to create a VL version and it would be a very effective SAM.

Launch altitude also plays a part. Not everywhere is flat.
Different ranges are quoted for Aster for different launch systems:
http://www.eurosam.com/products/ground-launched-systems/
http://www.eurosam.com/products/naval-systems/
Note the shorter range against missiles for the naval variant. Faster, supersonic anti-ship missiles being the different requirement probably.
Izdeliye 810.
As far as I know, the PAK FA will be using mostly new weapons.
Medium range AAM is Izdeliye 180, which is improved R-77 with conventional rather than lattice fins. Claimed to be equivalent to AIM-120D. 2 per main bay, possibly 3 if staggered like in the F-22.
Long range AAM is Izdeliye 810, not sure how related it is to RVV-BD. 2 per main bay.
Short range AAM is Izdeliye 760, which is improved R-73/R-74. Claimed to be AIM-9X/ASRAAM equivalent. An all new missile Izdeliye 300 will come online further in the future. One in each wing root bay.
One rumor I heard is that the rear main bay is shallower than the front one.
Did I get it right berkut?
Thanks. That makes sense. The R-37 is old too now.
Is the 180 to be a ramjet missile?
Because there are other more potent “long arm” missiles being developed.
That’s interesting. Such as?
First of all, Berkut was being sarkastic, u’ll get used to it..
Ofcourse the Pak-Fa wont use R-60 and R-27.On the same token, it wont carry the RVV-BD internally eighter.
Okay but I’m trying to understand why. Surely increasing range is a good thing if it fits.
On your last Q:
“The 101KS-O is an advanced laser-based countermeasure against heat-seeking missiles being developed as part of the 101KS Atoll Electro-Optical (EO) system for the Russian Air Force PAK FA T-50 fifth generation aircraft. The 101KS-O is mounted on a turret in the dorsal spine and takes care of blinding the missile’s seeker through a laser beam.”
Or something along those lines..
Thanks.
When I wrote “latest news” I meant news fresh of yesterday, 23rd of May: http://www.analisidifesa.it/2014/05/f-35-litalia-forse-dimezza-ma-in-europa-e-guerra-tra-poveri/
Sorry, only in Italian, but anyway much more updated then the piece of information you scanned and posted here. The reference to cut by 50% the original number of 131 was by Member of Italian Parliament Carlo Galli, quoted in the article I just linked.
Oh. Mine was from a publication made this month.
So I’m gathering they’ve gone from 131, to 90, to 65?