ErkokiteAren’t canards a 4th gen characteristic because they’re incompatible with stealth?
Not if they are done right. You can have canards on the same plane as the wing like the American X-36 demonstrator (though that has aerodynamic disadvantages). Saab has also developed a high-mounted canard compatible stealth shaping technique involving making a “Z” shape between the wing and canard. You could also make the canards transparent to radar- i.e. make it out of honeycomb core and a composite skin. Also by use of thrust vectoring and optimization of control scheduling one can avoid exposing canards straight on to a radar source. So there are many ways around this.
As for my answer to the OP’s question- I guess JXX, followed by ATD-X, then maybe European solutions or MCA. But Europe doesn’t seem to be pursuing 5th gen strongly, and I expect the MCA program to go about as well as the LCA program.
ErkokiteRussia should test their new fighter on North Korea.
ErkokiteEurope can develop a 5th gen fighter. The question is, which 4.5 gen fighter will it succeed, or will be based on ? The Typhoon, Rafale or Gripen ? Or will there be 3 European 5th gen. fighters ?[/B]
The only solid European steps towards a 5th gen aircraft are being taken by Saab. France might be doing something with Neuron/ETAP.
ErkokiteAccording to NPO saturn’s Ila Fedorov the actual prototype flew with totally new engines with superior thrust (compared to the SU-35 117S), new fadec and TVC; Ila says that enough numbers of this secret engine have been produced so that they can be used for the entire test program.
Source RIA Novosti via a french blog
http://secretdefense.blogs.liberation.fr/defense/2010/01/premier-vol-du-raptorski-en-russie.html
“This is the newest engine, and not advanced analog power plant for the Su-35, as written, some media and said some” experts. “He meets all the requirements that have been presented to us by” dry “- Fedorov said.
Compared to the engine for the Su-35, it features increased thrust, a complex system of automation, which laid down a plane on new qualities, including maneuverability, Fedorov said, stressing that more detailed specifications, he can not disclose now.
He reported that the engine was developed in the past four years. “Already released them enough for the whole range of tests,” – said the director.
ErkokiteThere are European engines capable of powering a 5th gen fighter. The EJ230 comes to mind. BAE has experience with stealthy airframes and it is likely that other european organizations do as well. There are European AESA fighter radars, and European IRST systems. They have plenty of experience building fighter aircraft. There is no question in my mind of Europe’s technological capability. They could easily build and field a 5th gen if they wanted to.
However, given the current economic situation in the world, and Europe’s understandable focus on the well-being of its peoples over military expenditure, a 5th gen program would be a VERY hard sell.
Does the PAK-FA justify a 5th gen European program? I say, yes, at some level. PAK-FA does not represent an immediate military threat, but it represents proliferation of 5th generation aircraft. This is a threat to the European aerospace industry. If you are unable to sell your aircraft, you are unable to survive as a company, and this could cause the loss of european expertise and jobs in the aerospace defense sector, as well as loss of European technological supremacy over China, Russia, and others.
Will Neuron and Barracuda be enough to preserve aerospace, military, and VLO knowledge in Europe? I hope so. But it certainly wouldn’t hurt to make sure by funding some sort of 5th generation fighter aircraft program. Preferably starting and entering service sooner rather than later. However, this should not be construed as an endorsement of cutting social programs to fund a military-industrial complex boondoggle. So one has to be careful.
Erkokitebecause this is Russia not China.
the flight is supposedly at Komsomolsk on Amur. thats all the way in the Pacific side of Russia, in the boonies. Unlike China where you see bases surrounded by apartments.
Groomi was blogging about it as he looked out the window at it. Surely they have internet. 😀
ErkokiteRIA Novosti now has a story on it @ rian.ru.
ErkokiteIt has landed.
Beat me by like 5 secs. I congratulate you sir.
Otaku, I’m scared. Hold me.
Sukhoi.ru is down again.
ErkokiteErkokiteAccording to this article because the engines are not fully tested yet, the first flight is postponed again. But again, it’s from a google trans, so someone should verify…
http://www.gzt.ru/topnews/politics/-istrebitelj-pyatogo-pokoleniya-podnimetsya-v-/285716.html
See post #576. No worries. 🙂
ErkokiteHmm forum hysteria once again?
who knows but “failure of a basic system” could mean just that.. i.e. the system that failed was pretty basic… which could or could not be cured by a bit of WD40! who knows!
Oh well atleast its entertaining.
There is no WD40 in Russia. They use vodka for that purpose. And as fuel, coolant, drinking, watering flowers, and for bathing.
ErkokiteWell it’s 14:33 there now. They prolly postponed the first flight. I heard there was light snow this morning, and it is cloudy. Light wind. Guess I’ll see tomorrow after I wake.
EDIT:Lenta is reporting as of 1/28, that the flight is still planned for today:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://lenta.ru/news/2010/01/28/date/&ei=bBVhS5u4LZLplAfWjaniCw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CAwQ7gEwAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25D0%25BF%25D0%25B0%25D0%25BA%2B%25D1%2584%25D0%25B0%2B%25D0%25BF%25D0%25B5%25D1%2580%25D0%25B2%25D1%258B%25D0%25B9%2B%25D0%25BF%25D0%25BE%25D0%25BB%25D0%25B5%25D1%2582%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3DTjM
ErkokiteBut shape isn’t the only thing that determines stealthiness. Maybe it will employ other measures to compensate for the less stealthy shape, such as plasma stealth, or some advanced form of active radar cancellation (don’t some russian planes already have it?).
Well you can use various absorbers- RAM, and Jaumann absorbers come to mind. Also, you can create differing areas of electrical resistance on the aircraft’s skin (R-cards). I doubt Sukhoi has overlooked these. Also, they are working on a “smart-skin” for the Su-35 which, I believe involves the positioning of T/R modules around the skin for passive detection, as well as advanced jamming (DRFM, spot/base jamming, and perhaps active cancellation). It would not be surprising to see similar stuff on the T-50.
ErkokiteHey, it’s marketing. I’m quite sure that the Tiffy is capable of giving the F-15 a serious beating in A2A. However, the F-15 is a proven combat performer and has many weapons and capabilities integrated that are still being worked on by the EF side.
The Su-30 has been claimed to be a serious F-15 opponent by USAF AFAIK. I’m sure it’s no less true than for the Typhoon. RAF flies both types- I believe an RAF pilot said that his toughest opponent in WVR was actually the F-16, and did not mention the F-15, and I’ve heard an F-16 pilot speak glowingly about the WVR advantages he enjoyed over the F-15. Needless to say, I’m sure the EF still has some serious advantages over the F-16 in WVR- higher thrust/weight, lower wing loading, close coupled canards, likely much more advanced fly by wire.
When it comes down to it, the Tiffy can supercruise (Pfcem, if you debate the meaning of this word, I’ll not be a happy camper), has a greatly reduced RCS among other advantages over the F-15, likely has a greater degree of aerodynamic instability, a more advanced FBW, and a more advanced DAS/passive EM detection system. The EF is a much newer aircraft, it should come as no surprise that it has advantages.
The F-15 (some models at least) has JHCMS, which is an advantage, but the Typhoon will get similar capability this summer.
Also, without knowing RoE’s, the exercise that the EF consortium is bragging about is a bit ambiguous. Also, everything said by every marketing PR piece ever should be taken with a grain of salt- remember that the EF consortium claimed 91% of the effectiveness of the F-22 at half the price? Or when Boeing claimed the F-15 SE is as stealthy as the F-35?
Unless we’re pilots in the who’ve flown both types many times and participated in many exercises with both aircraft, real life performance is a hard call.
ErkokiteMiG not innovative enough? :confused: Strange….. MiG has produced some great Russian aircraft.
I think they offered an upgraded/modified 1.44 to the program. The 1.44 would make an excellent 4.5 gen aircraft, but was not a true 5th gen.
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