Just had to get this off my chest, as it seems to crop up time after time, in real life and on here, the question being this.
Do you think that people who, on a Friday or Sat night, and get stoned, or take drugs in such a quantity, and as a result have to be taken to Hospital to be treated, should pay for the treatment they recieve?.
Jim.
Lincoln .7.
By: Arthur Pewtey - 13th July 2011 at 14:07
“Let’s face it, most don’t care about PCTs, competition within health care and all that rubbish. All they want is to be made better as quickly and painlessly as possible. Even the cost becomes secondary when you’re poorly.”
Mmmm – all that rubbish! Well, if “all that rubbish” contributes to the improvement or degradation of the NHS I would imagine it is worth caring about..
Not when you’re sick it isn’t – as I said all becomes irrelevant
“None of us would argue with that second sentence. It is or should be the raison d’etre of the service. Sadly I fear it is not. .
Oh I think it still is – there are those who would see it less than that I fear.
“I am not sure whether you are referring to the patient, the taxpayer or the NHS employees in your last sentence.
The patient.
Lincoln, can I ask favour – can you stop calling it “hozzy”!
I’m not sure what Creaking Door is getting at. 4 year old news items about strikes that didn’t happen and quotes from Animal Farm :confused:
By: Sky High - 13th July 2011 at 13:55
Scrapping “questionnaires” would probably save a few million…..
By: Lincoln 7 - 13th July 2011 at 13:52
I wonder what would be the result of effectively removing ‘management’ from the NHS completely;
Remember the NHS is the third largest employer in the world; only the Indian railways and the Chinese military have more people!
Whilst in hozzy last time, in one of those I seem to have a season ticket for, a young, well, younger than me lady was employed to do certain things regarding patients , regarding a questionair regarding their stay and treatment whilst a patient in said hozzy. I was visited by this young lady, and a male, who introduced himself as the young girls MANAGER, a managerial post created for just ONE person.And we wonder why.And how many times, have we seen the same person walking up and down the wards with the same?. piece of paper?.
Jim.
Lincoln .7
By: Sky High - 13th July 2011 at 13:51
“Let’s face it, most don’t care about PCTs, competition within health care and all that rubbish. All they want is to be made better as quickly and painlessly as possible. Even the cost becomes secondary when you’re poorly.”
Mmmm – all that rubbish! Well, if “all that rubbish” contributes to the improvement or degradation of the NHS I would imagine it is worth caring about.
None of us would argue with that second sentence. It is or should be the raison d’etre of the service. Sadly I fear it is not.
I am not sure whether you are referring to the patient, the taxpayer or the NHS employees in your last sentence.
By: Sky High - 13th July 2011 at 13:46
CD #9 – I can’t wait for Mischa to join this debate!!:diablo:
By: Creaking Door - 13th July 2011 at 13:41
Sadly, what is beginning to creep in over the last few months is the result of cost-cutting and the quality of care is starting to suffer.
“four legs good, two legs bad!” 😀
A couple of news reports from back in 2007 (‘socialist’ government ;)):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6559929.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2007/apr/17/health.uknews3
By: Sky High - 13th July 2011 at 13:20
Linc – a couple of answers to your question.
Firstly – no. I had a first rate GP in Cambridgeshire and since we moved have no complaints about my GP here. Unlike you I have had little need, until recently, of consultants or specialists, fortunately, so my experience is very limited. See our PMs.
Secondly – I am very wary when using the internet. In the hands of the unkowledgable – i.e. me – you can read and misundestsand or misinterpret as much as you understand. So it can be dangerous. Quite apart from that fact, a lot of garbage finds its way there added to the fact that to rely on it too much undermines the experience in “real life”, in the consulting room.
By: Arthur Pewtey - 13th July 2011 at 13:16
Let’s face it, most don’t care about PCTs, competition within health care and all that rubbish. All they want is to be made better as quickly and painlessly as possible. Even the cost becomes secondary when you’re poorly.
In my experience, the NHS currently is a vast improvement over that of 20 years ago. The system isn’t flawless but it is a vast improvement on what went previously.
Sadly, what is beginning to creep in over the last few months is the result of cost-cutting and the quality of care is starting to suffer.
By: Sky High - 13th July 2011 at 13:13
Moggy – I see those pigs have taken flight again…………
By: jbritchford - 13th July 2011 at 12:48
A friend sent me a link to this report, which made some interesting reading, and seemed like a fairly well balanced assessment:
http://www.reform.co.uk/portals/0/documents/NHSforpatients.pdf
By: Creaking Door - 13th July 2011 at 12:20
…a simple phone call or letter cost nearly nothing.
Actually no, the NHS will spend probably £500million on it every year.
By: Creaking Door - 13th July 2011 at 12:17
I wonder what would be the result of effectively removing ‘management’ from the NHS completely; just provide medical personnel (and facilities management) and let the doctors prescribe treatment until the (weekly) money runs out.
Impractical I know but interesting as a theoretical exercise! 😀
I once heard a statistic quoted (which may not be ‘true’) that there are eight managers for every bed in the NHS; if this is even partially true can these manager make that one bed more ‘efficient’ than, say, three beds with four managers?
I know that many of these ‘managers’ will be working in ‘clinical’ but not front-line posts (buying drugs and medical equipment for example) so the above probably doesn’t hold water but it makes you think about NHS costs.
Remember the NHS is the third largest employer in the world; only the Indian railways and the Chinese military have more people!
By: Lincoln 7 - 13th July 2011 at 12:09
Paul178. This is exactly the sort of reason I started this Post, I think exactly as you do, a simple phone call or letter cost nearly nothing. I also find that waiting for the wheels to turn, drives me wild. I now know also that ageism definately exists, and not only just in the NHS.
Jim.
Lincoln .7
By: Moggy C - 13th July 2011 at 12:06
Which, I think, was one of the now defunct proposals in the reforms, wasn’t it?
It was indeed, and one I heartily hope will see the light of day again, soon.
Moggy
By: Lincoln 7 - 13th July 2011 at 12:05
SkyHigh. Pete, Do you think that you have been treated by your Dr, Consultant in the same way/manner as you were say 10, to 15 yrs ago, do you feel you are being fobbed off,when you have paid them a visit?.
Has anyone been told something by their Doctor/ Consultant, gone home and Googled it, and found out you had in fact been told VERY LITTLE about what is wrong with you?.
Jim.
Lincoln .7
By: paul178 - 13th July 2011 at 12:04
Being honest with you about waiting times and updating you. I was told I had been put on the waiting list for back surgery on the 29/12/2010 and told 5 months, despite chasing them several times not a peep from them.
I thought common courtesy might be a start, that would not cost anything!
By: Sky High - 13th July 2011 at 12:03
Which, I think, was one of the now defunct proposals in the reforms, wasn’t it?
By: Moggy C - 13th July 2011 at 12:01
Scrap the PCTs.
Having seen one at work from the inside they are a drain on the NHS resources and contribute nothing of any use that I can fathom.
Serried ranks of workstations with keyboard clickers heads-down on Facebook or Twitter, in between holding lengthy meetings at which anyone who has an opinion is welcome to attend despite any lack of expertise in the area being discussed.
Not a patient, doctor or nurse in sight – but lovely expensive offices.
Moggy
By: Sky High - 13th July 2011 at 11:56
Well, certainly pumping more money in would achieve precisely nothing. Look how much it has had for the last 10 years or so.
But since no politician, that I am aware of, has the guts to really reform the NHS, it will struggle from bad to worse, I expect. Look at the last proposed reforms which were quickly sunk without trace.
By: Lincoln 7 - 8th June 2011 at 17:19
Lincoln.
You may qualify as an expert at being a patient. Unfortunately, it seems you have had considerable experience of being a patient. no-one, least of all me, would argue with that.
However, my qualification as a nurse, a qualified nurse, will inevitably give me a different viewpoint. As a nurse you are bound to treat the individual in terms of need. That was what I was, perhaps rather clumsily, trying to point out to you with your anecdote about someone being operated on ahead of you. Cause isn’t looked at, urgency of treatment is. In my time nursing I bet I got thrown up over by drunks almost as many times as you.
As I pointed out, in 2009 USA Today said that the average health insurance cost per family is 13,000 dollars. If you’re on minimum wage in the UK that’s most of your annual salary gone. It’s just unworkable unless premiums are very low. And as we know, health care eats money.
Regards,
kev35
Right Kev. Now your talking common sense. Lets bury the hatchet and start over. I do agree with the fact that charging drunks and druggies for treatment is untenable. But, and I did not know you were a nurse,it realy “P”s me off and did when I was in the Force, when I had to attend one of our two Hospitals on a Friday or Sat night, and see a nurse with a bruise to her face and other places caused by a pratt, who had been on drink or drugs, and was flailing around, injuring the very folk that were trying to help him.
I must admit, I have not had to pay for my prescriptions for a few years now, and if I had to pay for all the tablets I am on each month, I would be bankrupt in a couple of years.
As regards the winter fuel payments, I think you will agree that as one gets older, you tend to feel the cold more. Also if elderly, one tends to stay indoors to keep warm, those in employment, have the luxery of having their workplace heated, ergo, their gas and electric bills are less than those who have to stay at home. Yes, I agree that the cost of the health care in the USA is prohibitive, and wouldn’t work over here.We seem to be very top heavy in the NHS, and could do without many of the so called Managers, and the money saved ploughed back into the system.We recently gave Pakistan several million pounds thanks to Gordon Brown, yet deny a tablet that costs a mere £2.50. to help those who have Cancer, live a little longer. Sod giving money away to other Countries, as far as I am concerned, Charity begins at home.I could go on, but whats the point, as long as those that run this once great Country down are in power, whatever Party is in, as long as they get their undeserved pay and exes, we don’t stand a chance of betterment.
Jim.
Lincoln .7
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June 7, 2011 at 3:43 pm