N.H.S.

Kev

My comment was intended to apply to the free prescriptions for men over 60. I am sure you are right about it being related to equality for gender but then if the pension age is not also equated, which of course it cannot be, then it doesn’t make much sense. I have an admittedly old copy of the BNF and it is, as you say, illuminating. Maybe the whole way that drugs are provided needs an overhaul and that the charge should be a percentage of the cost of the drug.

The point about missed appointments is valid but I would take it a stage further and impose a charge for missed appointments without notice being given, say 48 hours in advance. I accept that there would be problems in recovering the cost but I am sure ways could be found and I am equally sure that it would concentrate the minds more. The personal example you quote is unforgivable and exemplifies an aspect of the NHS which clearly needs urgent revision.

As for winter fuel payments I felt embarrassed to be given them when I reached 60. I thought of all the people who really do need them and who perhaps might get more if anyone, pensioner or not, still working was ineligible.

Your last sentence ties in rather neatly to the assisted suicide thread, doesn’t it.

Sky High.

We are already paying. Prescription costs £7.40 for a single prescription item. I know there are swings and roundabouts but £7.40 for a repeat prescription for tablets costing a penny each is a bit rough, but I suppose somewhat tempered when a box of five dressings can cost £150. There’s a book called the BNF or british National Formulary which tells you all you need to know about every dressing and medication in everyday use, even, quite often illuminatingly, the cost.

Your comment regarding the reminder letter for your appointment does look at face value to be a valid one, and it might well be. However, in June 2009 the Telegraph ran an article stating that the missed hospital appointments for 2007 – 2008 cost 600 million pounds! That cost breaks down to £100 for every appointment missed which, on reflection, makes the cost of a reminder letter seem a little easier to bear, especially if it means the appointment is not missed. However, the corollary to that is the six appointment cancellations I received, each time because the Doctor became suddenly unavailable. The last one was set to go ahead but on the day I was too ill to attend. I contacted the actual department I was to visit and told them the circumstances and was told that another appointment would be sent in due course. They even thanked me for letting them know. Six months later and still no appointment I rang the relevant department only to be told that I had been discharged because I had failed to attend an appointment!

As for the free prescriptions at 60 for all, I can only assume that that is somehow related to the acts concerning equality of gender. A similar situation, though not NHS related, has come about regarding winter fuel payments. Whilst clearly not needed by everyone, the payments should have been means tested in the first place, this current Government’s answer (who I believe said they wished to secure the futures of the poorest members of society) have introduced a blanket reduction of £100 for this coming winter, at a time when it was announced yesterday that gas prices for one company are to rise by 19%.

There are times when I wonder whether it is worth living long enough to need looking after.

Regards,

kev35

Indeed, but don’t lose sight of the fact that Kev was speaking from the NHS point of view, as he reminded us, he is a qualified nurse, so his experience from the “other” side is important.

glojo. Thanks for putting me right, however, it’s only Kevs opinion, and I fail to see your reasoning as to why he is more qualified to answer than anyone else, after all it’s only our own opinions we are discussing.I wouldn’t like to state that person “A” is better qualified than person “B”. Unless they have the qualifications to discuss a particular subject, ie, an expert witness, as we used to say in the Force.:)
Jim.

Lincoln .7

🙂 🙂

I think you have answered your own question in an extremely eloquent manner. .

The problem with just using the written word is that we have no idea who we are speaking to, what their qualifications may or may not be, and most important the manner in which they are trying to communicate…. Smilies help but are not the complete answer.

I would not be a a nurse or doctor that worked in our casualty departments for all the tea in………

I salute them and the ambulance staff that keeps them in business :):)
and I guess they are the ones to listen to when they attempt to answer your question.

Life would be boring if we all agreed with each all of the time and it is the mark of the individual in how they express themselves when they do disagree.

I have had my say and hopefully given my opinion regarding your specific question and then I’ve added that I believe the NHS has past its sell by date and in need of a radical overhaul, but that’s another issue 🙂 🙂

I feel that it is inevitable that certain things will have to cease being free at the point of delivery. It should have happened years ago but for some reason the NHS is a sacred cow in the minds of both politicians and the public.

A charge to see the doctor or dentist could be applied but waived for all on benefits, children and those over pensionable age.

And the overweaning bureaucracy of the NHS systems need to be addressed. Just one simple example. I recently received a letter confirming a hospital appointment. Two weeks later I received a reminder. If this is repeated a few million times a year I dread what the costs will be. And that is just one small example.

I also think it ludicrous that men receive prescription free drugs at 60 years just because woman do. Men continue in work until they are 65 and I have no idea why the system was changed. People on benefits are not charged in any case.

So I have no doubt that there are answers to make the NHS better for its employees and its patients but I think it requires political nerves of steel to find them.

Lincoln.

You may qualify as an expert at being a patient. Unfortunately, it seems you have had considerable experience of being a patient. no-one, least of all me, would argue with that.

However, my qualification as a nurse, a qualified nurse, will inevitably give me a different viewpoint. As a nurse you are bound to treat the individual in terms of need. That was what I was, perhaps rather clumsily, trying to point out to you with your anecdote about someone being operated on ahead of you. Cause isn’t looked at, urgency of treatment is. In my time nursing I bet I got thrown up over by drunks almost as many times as you.

As I pointed out, in 2009 USA Today said that the average health insurance cost per family is 13,000 dollars. If you’re on minimum wage in the UK that’s most of your annual salary gone. It’s just unworkable unless premiums are very low. And as we know, health care eats money.

Regards,

kev35

glojo. Thanks for putting me right, however, it’s only Kevs opinion, and I fail to see your reasoning as to why he is more qualified to answer than anyone else, after all it’s only our own opinions we are discussing.I wouldn’t like to state that person “A” is better qualified than person “B”. Unless they have the qualifications to discuss a particular subject, ie, an expert witness, as we used to say in the Force.:)
Jim.

Lincoln .7

The question was however do you think that those who get stoned on a Friday or Sat night through drink or drugs, should be made to pay.

Hi Lincoln,
I reckon I answered that in my previous post:

I can understand where you are coming from but perhaps disagree with the stand you take.

Might I suggest instead that we consider it an offence to get ‘Drunk and Incapable’ or the alternative of being ‘Drunk and Disorderly’

I hate it when folks inflict this condition on themselves and then take up valuable medical resources but we are where we are and have to deal with what we have.

Could we not consider placing these drunkards in a police cell and only if their condition warrants medical attention they receive it?

Once the person has received medical treatment then we cart them off back to my cell

kev35 is far better qualified to comment on this issue but I do agree with what this person said regarding this issue.

Hi John, Firstly, welcome to the club. You will find at times get heated, but in the nicest possible way;).

I agree with what you say, however, being made to walk along corridors in hozzy was unacceptable, you should have had a wheelchair, and Porter.

I put this Post on here, as I knew many of us have been in hozzy, and treatment left a lot to be desired.
The question was however do you think that those who get stoned on a Friday or Sat night through drink or drugs, should be made to pay.
As Sky High stated, I have opened a can of worms, as I think they should.
You will by now seen and read all the comments which are mixed, as I would have expected. Each to his own opinion, but don’t forget what Moggy has stated, don’t go overboard, and get the GD site removed.
Enjoy.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Lincoln.

You’re right, the NHS does need sorting. But health insurance would lead to at least a three tier system.

The first tier would be for those who can afford whatever fee the insurance agency requests.

The second tier would be those who can afford to pay a limited amount.

The third tier would be those who can’t pay at all.

The best staff would go to the hospitals with the best facilities and paying the best salaries. This would further degrade any remaining healthcare system. At the end of the day it would mean patients (not clients or customers) would be treated according to their ability to pay rather than their need for treatment.

I don’t know the answer, but I really don’t think health insurance is the answer.

Regards,

kev35

Hi Kev,
You have wrote some very wise words and my American cousin describes our NHS as being ‘Third World’ BUT….. They are fortunate enough to have insurance cover due to the time spent in the US military. I am guessing if they had no insurance then our ‘Third World NHS, might not be so bad after all’

Now stand by for perhaps some incoming 🙁

Quick little ditty.
Many moons ago I tripped and hurt my ankle… I managed to get to the local cottage hospital who wanted to cut my wellington boots as it was quite painful trying to get the thing off. ‘Not likely, these are new boots… I will take the pain’

Five minutes later the attending doctor decided I needed an X-ray and had to go into the city where they had the right equipment.

Queued for two hours waiting to be seen and in the meantime watched numerous ambulances arrive and take their cargo to the nearest cubicle where they were all very quickly assessed. Some with just grazes, others with sprained bones but of course there were also very serious cases, but all that arrived by ambulance went straight into a cubicle! (there is a moral there)

When I was eventually asked to walk to a vacant cubicle I was quickly seen by a doctor who recommended I be x-rayed….. Just like I had told the woman at reception and just like the referral note said that I had handed in.

A nurse then told me to ‘Follow the red line to the x-ray department’ Off I hoppled with the aid of a commandeered branch from a tree. X-ray taken I was told to walk to a waiting room whilst the image was developed…. ‘No it’s not good enough please come back and have a second attempt.. Second time successful and

‘Follow the red line to get back to casualty!’

Off I hobble and onto a bed in a vacant cubicle.. In comes the same doctor and through sucking teeth,…… ‘Hmmm you have fractured ankle and torn ligaments, I trust you have not attempted to walk on that foot!!!!’ I then had to stay in that blooming hospital until the swelling could be reduced to allow the foot to get plastered.

I would like to believe that things have progressed since then, and for most sections of society I am sure it has

BUT……
My experience of the NHS and the so called ‘care’ they are supposed to give the elderly and infirm is nothing short of disgusting!! I would like to use stronger words but am biting my tongue. We all hear on the news about so called ‘isolated’ cases but one day the penny will drop and someone will realise that one case or even two or three might be described as ‘isolated’ but what is happening in what I believe to be in far more hospitals is just plain criminal.

My own recent personal experience of the NHS has been nothing short of excellent, the treatment my wife has received is nothing short of excellent, but that of my elderly infirm parents was nothing short of criminal, and the same applies to that received by my mother-in-law in a different hospital to my own parents was also nothing short of criminal neglect!!!

I find it hard to believe how nurses, nursing assistants and all other types of medical staff can treat these elderly folks in the way they do as in life there is one thing that is certain……….. WE ALL GET OLD!!!!!! Treat others how you would like to be treated and you should never go far wrong!

Please do not ask me for details but suffice it to say I complained, the complaint was glossed over by the hospital concerned, but when I took this further the Ombudsman found in our favour and made certain recommendations that if applied would be brilliant but I am not holding my breath.

Our NHS was once the ultimate health care organisation that held respect World-wide.. We now have nursing staff coming across from Scandinavian countries and Europe to see aliments like MRSA as these are unheard of in their countries!!!! That to me speaks louder than a thousand words.

I dread getting old as I have seen first-hand what awaits me and it is not nice.

Blow me on Sky News we are now hearing of more complaints about how the elderly are being treated in our NHS hospitals!!!

Apologies for that rant and I do agree with the excellent points you have raised 🙂

Regards
John

That is very appropriate, Moggy, but I was not aware we were being uncivil at all in this thread. If I have been it was unintended.:)

It is by no means the worst example, I merely make the point so that you are aware what is being discussed above moderator level.

You will also note that PeeDee is taking a well-earned rest from posting for the next month.

Moggy
Moderator

From very recent experience I can confirm that the government have got at least one thing right.

The scrapping of PCTs (Primary Care Trusts) huge bureaucracies filled with keyboard clicking functionaries, not particularly knowledgeable in the areas in which they are wasting time and money having continual meetings about, will be a great step forward.

Moggy

Moggy. I agree entirely with what you say re the P.C.Ts, the most gigantic leap in my book however would be to get rid of the Post Code Lottery, which even with the PCTs going, somewon, somewhere will make sure it”s kept alive.
Jim.

Lincoln .7

That is very appropriate, Moggy, but I was not aware we were being uncivil at all in this thread. If I have been it was unintended.:)

And guys, please keep it civil. We are, as you know, one mod down. The remainder of us cannot guarantee to have the time to edit threads and remove individual postings. Expect to see contentious threads in this forum that wobble out of control removed in their entirety.

GD is provided as a service for our members; it is not fundamental to the purpose of this forum and could be easily withdrawn by the webmaster if the mood seizes him – and it has been discussed.. Sorry.

Moggy
Moderator

Arthur, The NHS is a great system, however there are areas where great improvements are needed.

From very recent experience I can confirm that the government have got at least one thing right.

The scrapping of PCTs (Primary Care Trusts) huge bureaucracies filled with keyboard clicking functionaries, not particularly knowledgeable in the areas in which they are wasting time and money having continual meetings about, will be a great step forward.

Moggy

Oh, don’t worry – Linc – there are plenty of others!!;)

Your repeating yourself Pete, thats one of the 1st signs 😀

Jim.

Lincoln .7

“Gents, We are way off track here, the question I posted was simple,”

This doesn’t seem to have made much progress overnight….I refer you to my first post in the thread…No, is the simple answer to the question.

Should they not be attacking the cause of the needless waste of NHS resources, rather than treat the problem as an income source. Generally, the young do not care of the consequences. They’ve had a good time, and got another story to tell. It should really be enforced at a school level, where education is supposed to be taking place.

Yes, perhaps there is food for thought there in your words.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Interesting how experience can give a different view on things. My experience is that the NHS is a vastly improved organization than that of 20 years ago and all I see is a government determined to screw it up for their own ends. No it isn’t perfect but no organization of the scale of the NHS can ever be so.
Any treatment myself or my family have needed has been based on our need, nobody judged our lifestyle, our habits or diet or past history to determine whether we were worthy of treatment. We were treated because we needed it. What a great system.

but the point is that was when the country could afford to do so !!

we had industry , an empire , people could be picky where they worked

practicaly everyone smoked so paid extra tax ,

money has to come from somewhere with ever growing unemployment and ever shrinking empire and industry

there will have to be new methods braught in to save money and why shouldn’t it be mellingerers that are a constant burden ignoring good sound advice

if a mechanic tells you not to take your car as he has not finnished a brake job you leave it as you know it is dangerous

yet the same advice from a medical expert and certain individuals have the ” bollo*ks to him attitude !” and carry on !!