quadbikeAnkush
I will repeat this again. Afordibility was not the debate. You claimed Gripen was never offered. Yet again you have been proven wrong.
This is the 3rd sweeping satement of yours proven incorrect.
You make claims, they are questioned and you cannot explain yourself.
Better take a rest…
Actually with regards to the Gripen Ankush’s links are bit more clear cut. Your link says Gripen is an option (it is if the Swedes offer it). I think they may if the Gripen do not win the Indian MRCA. 😉
quadbikeI think that India cannot become a real regional power with China on the top and Pakistan on the left. Cuba crises showed that a real superpower does/can NOT afford to have danger near its borders. Besides that a superpower exports weapons to control others. India is a mega importer.
The Americans had SRBMs near USSR for ages and they were hypocritical when the Soviets tried the same with Cuba. You really forget the fact that another super power existed in this world and only collapsed because of its outdated economic system.
quadbikeNo one in this day and age thinks they can 100% gaurantee protection against nuke missiles. It really is insanity to think so.
You are right it is more like damage limitation. But a few of these around high value targets against an enemy which do not have MIRV capability will really make a difference in terms of a nuke war.
quadbikeIs that supposed to be directed towards me? If so, please show the offending post. Gracias.
USS.
Not towards you, If so I would have quoted you. But many here do make similar discussions in the PAF thread and then moan about them doing it here.
quadbikeActually it seems a bit double-standardish to me that some of you are crying foul after doing the same in the PAF thread.
quadbikeWowser! We really are getting into hypotheticals here! Lets not start debating the start of WWIII here!
No one can guess what Russia’s response will be. Not me, not you, not anyone. They may decide to stay totally neutral. Each country will have to rely on its own resources. China is a threat India will not be able to ignore.
I dont doubt MRCA wil come with stand off capability. PAF already have this with RAAD operationlised however.
You are the one getting hypothetical thinking that China will come to Pakistan’s Aid. I am just reminding you that we also have friends 😉
Oh and Happy New Year to you too 😀
And its Babur 🙂
If you are talking about further down the line like middle of the coming decade, we will have the 1000 km Nirbhay 🙂
quadbikeThe Head of the Indian Army is recently on record saying that India must be prepared to fight China and Pakistan at the same time. During war, if all 3 Phalcons are dedicated to Western theatre then that will give China a massive edge. I dont know IAF operational plans in this case, neither do you I suppose.
We dont even know when they plan to issue a new RFP, so lets not assume delivery timetables already.
I dont doubt some of your kit is capable of detecting cruise missiles and may even be lucky enough to shoot some down, but detect all of them and shoot them all down!? I cannot think of a single country on earth that can do that. Even the United States!
That is the worst case scenario. the chance of China getting dragged into an Indo-Pak war is remote. India will have its own contingency strategy to prevent it like a strong words from the Russians to the Chinese (or the Russians moving some battalions near the Sino-Russian border will effectively counter that)
It is expected that the new global tender will be floated within a month, according to sources.
http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2009/12/flash-mod-cancels-eads-airbus-refueller.html
So we do know then they are going to issue the new RFP.
No need to shoot all of them down, the point is to limit your damage while inflicting more on your enemy.
Apart from the Brahmos, the MRCA of choice may come with Stand off capability of tis own (even limited to 290 kms because of MTCR it will be potent)
quadbikeErieye will have enough power to jam IAF near teh border, you are right, strike packages may need upgrading, but they will not be flying that deep into India.
I think you all are just over-emphasizing the impact the Erieye will have on the battlefield. In case of War all 3 Phalcons the IAF will have will be in the Western theater. Not to mention a number of Su 30 MKIs equiped with Russian Anti-Awacs missiles.
The only reason why a follow on order of 3 Phalcons is not placed is because I think the IAF is looking for a better/cheaper to operate platform than the IL 76.
Tender for more Air refullers cancelled = YES
There will be a delay of 2 or so years (New RFP and all that) but they will be here well within the time frame.
However I dont see India having the capability to detect a large number of low flying, terrain hugging cruise missiles, let alone intercept them.
Again you are downplaying the capabilities India has on this field with the large number of home grown radars being inducted. The MR-SAM, Akash and SPYDER will give multi-layered coverage and their associated Radars are capable of detecting and intercepting cruise missiles.
Rimmer.
It basically depends on when the proposed conflict takes place, is it going to be in five-six years or in a year or so. In the case of the latter both forces will not have many things we have been talking about above.
quadbikeI was just trying to say the MRCA will be a bigger boost to the IAF than the FGFA arriving at a future date.
In case of a two-front war if that is what the editorial you have mentioned implies, then you are right. It is in this scenario that the MRCA will become crucial as the heavy hitters will be diverted east.
quadbikeBoth Su30 and block 50/52+ are exceptional machines – actual outcomes are debateable but not as important as the deterant value the F-16 brings.
As for MRCA being game changer – I would respectfully disagree. Look at it this way – is the winner of the competition going to be substantialy more capable than the SU30MKI – if not – then how can it be a game changer? Also bear in mind PAF’s planned aquisition of AESA equipped FC-20’s.
One your first point, I think the Su 30 MKI is a superior but even if we consider them equal, the IAF also holds a numerical advantage. As a deterrent however you are right.
As for the second point. If you look at the IAF now, it is over-reliant on the MKI which have to be factored in to both fronts. The MRCA will change that,while boosting the IAF’s strike capability significantly. Suppose if IAF chooses the Super Hornet, a few of these Bomb-Trucks escorted by Su 30 MKIs will be a a nightmare scenario for the PAF. After all the best place to destroy your enemy’s Airforce is on the ground not in the air.
By the time MRCA is in full numbers the PAF will have evolved over the entire area. Block52 is nice but not the high tech machine for PAF. FC20 is going to be better or there will be an alternative.
The MRCA induction will take time, but so will the induction of FC 20s.
quadbikeBut what for? Adding more weight to an airframe/engine that was maxed out from its first day?
Thats why we are re-engining it. The Honeywell offer in particular looks promising, their engine has reduced weight and increased thrust, adding to better payload capablity.
quadbikeFinally BVR. I will take the C5 AMRAAM over ANYTHING in the IAF inventory.
How does it compare to the R 77 ? The Su 30 MKI has a better radar than the Block 50/52+ and has a better Jammer, which would mean that any marginal advantage the C5 has over R 77 will be nullified as the F 16 will have to be well within the R 77s range to try a successful BVR kill using the C5.
I think the status quoted would remain the same, and the next gamechanger would be the introduction of the next gen fighter by IAF.
I think the next gamechanger will be the MRCA, and not the FGFA. 100+ MRCA backed by MKI will be very hard deal with. (India is likely to get AMRAAM C7/Meteor depending on its choice for MRCA)
quadbikeMoD Cancels EADS Airbus Refueller RFP as Finance Min Objects To High Price
The Indian Air Force (IAF)’s proposal put up with the Ministry of Defence (MoD) to purchase purchase of six flight refuelling aircraft(FRA), has been cancelled due to its high price as objected to by the Ministry of Finance. The Request For Proposal (RFP) or tender was retracted after it reached its final stages of obtaining the approval of the Cabinet Committee on Security(CCS) by the MoD.
The spanner in the works was put by the Finance Ministry, who did not support the proposal as the final negotiated cost of aircraft offered by EADS (European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company), a European consortium, was overpriced. The cost is said to be nearly 10 times higher than IL-78 air-to-air refuellers of Russian origin, which presently are in the IAF’s inventory. The mid-air refuellers form two squadrons in the IAF, which help fighter jets to be airborne for a longer duration by refuelling them in mid-air.
Its a great setback for EADS as this is the second time the Governmnet cancelled the high-valued deal after reaching the final stage (two year duration) due to genuine reasons. It is expected that the new global tender will be floated within a month, according to sources.
The one billion dollar deal was progressing as per the Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP)-2006, but Defence Minister A K Antony had informed in Parliament, in the last session, that the Finance Ministry’s approval was awaited.
The six EADS Airbus 330 refuelling tanker transport aircraft were exceeding the estimated price of the deal. The IAF had indicated its choice of the aircraft over the existing IL-78 refuelling tankers, which is why the Russian aircraft were not allowed to participate in the bid. The EADS 330 aircraft are capable of refuelling all types of fighter aircraft, which are in the inventory of the IAF and those yet to join.
Bad News
http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2009/12/flash-mod-cancels-eads-airbus-refueller.html
quadbikeWhy the change in posting styles Tango III ?
quadbikeI was just talking about now, situation is starting to change . New AWACS mid-air refuellers and Block 52+ AMRAAM C5s will certainly improve detterence.
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