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Viewing 15 posts - 7,321 through 7,335 (of 9,195 total)
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  • October 30, 2011 at 4:28 pm in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2375833
    TR1
    Participant

    as for “steale russian design” in general.

    But the plain fact of the matter is the J-15 is a Su-33 rip-off. Chinese members are not apparently capable of admitting it.

    October 30, 2011 at 4:25 pm in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2375840
    TR1
    Participant

    spine!) and TR1 (If India has it, its the bestest!) is ultimately a waste of time but other people will be interested in learning the truth.

    Actually, if you people learned to read, you might find out I said both aircraft have their merits. My issue was with ppp’s stupid “They would be feeling twice as good if they had modernized Su33! comment.

    October 30, 2011 at 4:23 pm in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2375842
    TR1
    Participant

    and i will repeat it for the tenth time (and im not the only one)
    Su-33 production stopped! There were no updates. MiG kept developing it, and India made the rational choice of going for one that had more of a future than the other. Russia chose the Su-33 at first. Sukhoi proved to Soviet MAP it was superior. Russia chose the new MiG-29 because Su-33 production stopped and MiG was already building Migs for India. That simple

    ps. CHina went for SU-33.

    1.) Su-33 had a production line, period. MiG-29K did not. India still went for MiG-29. Russia also later went for Su33 (yes, in part because it was obvious smart move since the Indian MIG-29K took shape)…and if the Su-33 was so superior (not to mention the commonality in parts, pilot training, etc) Russia would have simply ordered a thorough modernization of the existing airframes.
    2.) China went for Su-33, because it was the only thing they could get. Remember the Su-33 from Ukraine? Not necessarily a bad choice, perhaps it made more sense given their indigenous Flanker experience. But either way, its not like they had the choice.

    October 30, 2011 at 12:09 am in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2376016
    TR1
    Participant

    and you didn’t see my reply to my diagram, where the Su-33 section included helicopters too, MiG-29K had no helicopters. When adjusted for helicopters, the MiG-29K numbers were not that far off from Su-33.

    Old MiG-29K case, Sukhoi chosen for political but also capability reasons. flat out superior to both

    New MiG-29KUB chosen for practical reasons.

    Right, you have details on the testing, please do post. I would like to see the detailed performance reports.

    “flat out superior” lol.

    I will repeat for the tenth time, if Su-33 was so superior, why did neither India nor Russia choose it? The production line argument is invalid, since there actually WAS a Su-33 line, nothing for MiG-29K. India already hose Su-30, there could have been some parts commonality, but nope, they did not. Russia could have thoroughly modernized Su-33, but they didn’t.

    Anwyays, I’ve said all I think on the subject, the rest is pointless speculation.
    EDIT: Which isn’t to say I am not speculating 😉

    October 29, 2011 at 11:54 pm in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2376036
    TR1
    Participant

    And you didn’t see the next page, where a diagram illustrated their footprints. The choice was very much political, and that was the old MiG-29K in any case.

    I said no major changes, wingtips are not major. Engines are not aiframe.

    October 29, 2011 at 11:48 pm in reply to: Russian Navy Thread #2030959
    TR1
    Participant

    I’m not sure what your point is.. I said Russia should piggy back off the Indian Navy order on Krivak IVs.. isn’t that the Russian name for Talwars?

    1.) Krivak is not, nor has it ever been the Russian name for any ship.
    2.) They are doing exactly what you said – ordering a bunch of ships that are well established due to the Indian orders.

    October 29, 2011 at 11:33 pm in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2376060
    TR1
    Participant

    Knaapo production line already made a few dozen of Su-33, which is more than the MiG-29K line can say, when the Indians went for it. Hmmm…

    First decision, for the Soviet Navy, was more political than anything. Since then MiG-29K has had significant changes…clearly a modernized Su-33 did not interest India nor Russia.

    J-15 doesn’t look like it has any significant airframe changes from Su-33.

    Both Su-33K and MiG-29 are good aircraft, I imagine its not a clear “one is superior” scenario. Yes, Su-33 would have larger radar, but RCS is also larger. Any of you have firm data on takeoff distance, performance, that kind of thing? Didn’t think so. Russia and India made the right choice in their context, Kuznetsov is not a huge carrier in any case, especially in terms of fighter operation/storage. MiG-29Ks footprint is smaller than Su-33s at the end of the day, and that matters on any carrier.

    October 29, 2011 at 10:52 pm in reply to: Chinese pilot practicing carrier ops on Kuznetsov #2376063
    TR1
    Participant

    Oh no it has been backed up, you just didn’t like what was said and refused to accept it, which isn’t the same as not backed up. According to your rules, you’ve not backed anything up either, so stop being hypocritical.

    Once again, you repeat your claims like a parrot, without any evidence. Good job. You are the one making the tall claims, back em up. Note, unlike you, I am not claiming the MiG-29K is a much superior plane to a modernized Su-33.

    I laid out the evidence, that, when they had the ability to go for either Su-33 or MIG-29, both RuAF and India went for MiG-29. That tells me something.

    October 29, 2011 at 2:37 am in reply to: Chinese pilot practicing carrier ops on Kuznetsov #2376319
    TR1
    Participant

    the better plane being the Sukhoi.

    Once again, you make a claim with no backing of it. I am glad you flew both planes, and can make that statement though.

    Once again, I will repeat what I said. Had the Su-33 been a much (or at all really) superior option, India could have asked for KnAAPO to make the plane (you have some insider info on Knaapo line now? It actually made Su-33s, while MiG-29K line was almost non existant)….and when the question of Mig-29k came up, Russia could have simply extended the life and modernized the Su-33. They didn’t. That tells me something.

    And guess what? Brand new MiG-29K cost is much more than a thorough upgrade of the Su-33.

    October 29, 2011 at 2:35 am in reply to: The AESA radar retrofit market #2376322
    TR1
    Participant

    AESA is vastly superior of detecting VLO, i assume India is looking into upgrading their Su-30 with AESA,
    I bet on Elta, or a domestic version, hence the insistence on AESA ToT from MMRCA

    The Indian Su-30 AESA will either be a Phazatron or NIIP set, that much is 100% sure.

    October 28, 2011 at 11:40 pm in reply to: Indian Navy – News & Discussion – IV #2031037
    TR1
    Participant

    She is already nearly 20 years old now. Add another 25~30 years of service and she would require a lot of maintenance. I also reckon that obtaining spare parts is going to be a major issue as time goes on.

    Why will spare parts be a major issue as time goes on? Machinery is all new.

    20 years old, but not much of it was spent at sea, plus the modernization is a thorough reconstruction. Basically a new ship at this point.

    October 28, 2011 at 11:19 pm in reply to: Russian Navy Thread #2031040
    TR1
    Participant

    if it were me, i’d have the Russian Navy order a bunch of Krivak IVs instead, build off what India had

    =

    You do know where the 11356Ms are built right?

    They are basically Indian Talwars, with all foreign equipment replaced by new Russian equivalents. You can expect UKSK on it, hopefully VLS Shtil, Russian sonar, that kind of thing.

    October 28, 2011 at 11:14 pm in reply to: Cockpit visibility and Sukhoi factories #2376382
    TR1
    Participant

    I think the 42 MKI option is also being purchased from Russia.

    That’s the second recent order, signed in 2010? It would be made in Irkut as well if that is the case.

    Between the Su-30MKI and the Su-30SM IAPO still has a lot of Flanker airframes to work on. If I am not mistaken there is the likeliness of further orders from Algeria? Not sure why they are thinking of phasing out the line, guess the MS-21 promises bigger profits.

    October 28, 2011 at 11:04 pm in reply to: Chinese pilot practicing carrier ops on Kuznetsov #2376384
    TR1
    Participant

    Except that you are comparing the upgraded Mig-29 to the non-upgraded SU-33. The SU-33K would be much better than the Mig-29K. I’m sure the Indians are feeling fine, but he with the upgraded SU-33 will feel twice as fine 😀

    What is any of this based on? If Russia felt the Su-33K would be much better than the MiG-29K, they would simply have modernized the Su-33 along the lines of the multiple domestic Flanker modernization plans. Also, India could have requested a modernized Su-33 if it was “much better” as you claim. Nah, the logic doesn’t add up, sorry.

    Both the RuAF and Indians feel fine, they made the right decision. 😎

    October 28, 2011 at 10:57 pm in reply to: Russian Aviation thread, part V #2376388
    TR1
    Participant

    http://russianplanes.net/images/to58000/057348.jpg

    Good lines.

    http://www.rostvertolplc.ru/additional/news-index/news/Mi-26.html

    2 Mi-26s delivered to RuMOD. Looks like they are in the new grey standard, actually looks pretty good.

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