redreidyYep and the US plan to buy 2000 plus airframes….. This also doesn’t compare to the F-22 program. The US has no choice but to buy the aircraft. Also despite what you think western countries are not broke. America still has a GDP of 12+trillion the European nations combined a GDP of 14+ trillion dollars. Russia on the other hand is around 1.4 trillion and India 1.5. China 5 (this is all from the IMFS website btw)….. I think we should agree to disagree I’m pretty sure that the program will be fine.
anway this is all off topic. the PAK FA looks like a mighty fine craft altho i do worry about those intakes the fan blades seem rather exposed…
redreidyAre you going to be personally funding this shopping spree? 🙂 (Can i come to if you are?:p)
The “westernised” airforces are largely broke…
If the Russians can get this PAK thingy flying for a decent price i wouldn’t bet against it getting some surprising sales.
Many of those “westernised” airforces will require a platfrom more for a2a then for strike. This i’m sure will become emphasised as you see the populance object to their leaders foreign adventures and demand that any armed forces are defensive rather than offence (a2a rather than strike) in nature. (Yes i’m aware that having an a2a only airforce isn’t the best way of defending your ground, i’m also aware that not many joe and joanna public understand that.)
I dont know if the F-35 potential customers are broke, what does that make the PAKs customers other than india and russia they dont have 2 pennys to rub together. and america alone will buy more F-35 than russia and india will combined.
redreidyNow i don’t Think india will buy the F 35 as part of the MRCA at this alte stage. However you are really mistaken.
1. The F 35 can carry ordinances on pylons too, the whole concept of the JSF is based on flexibility, on the first day it can be VLO and carry out strikes and A2A missions on the following days it can load up on external stores and be a bomb truck.
2. India may have the JSF as a fall back option if there are delays in both the programs. Actually I don’t think the IAF will consider the JSF at this stage because the competiton is nearly over and people would cry foul, but had it been in in the first place, I have no doubt it would have been in the final list.
3. And you say the F 35 ain’t maneuvarable based on what ? A certain Carlo Kopp and a bunch of Ruso-Euro fanboys on forums ? It will be as maneuvarable as a clean Early model F 16. And because it carries it weapons internally and the Eurocanards carry theirs externally, I doubt there will be any significant advantage for them in WVR. And with EODAS maneuvarability is irrelavant:diablo:
lol i believe u misunderstood what i was getting at with almost all of your response,
the first point that I was making was not that the F-35 is not capable of preforming outside of the first day strike. My point was that the rafale and typhoon will be just as capable if not more capable, as are the SH or the F-15 When you take the stealth factor out of the equation. The F-35 will have top notch electronic systems but that is something that the eurocannards will also have when the aesa are online. I know that it is early days with the F-35 but it’s very doubtful that its flight performance will be comparable to the eurocannards, its only advantage will be its stealth and range which for some is deemed nessacery but for India I don’t think it is at the moment.
Which brings me to my second point there is no rush for India to rush into buying 5th gen, they have their own programs that can fill this need why buy American for twice the price?
Thirdly the F-16’s are no longer the benchmark as far as I’m aware. I think that the eurocannards will outperform the F-35 within visual range due to raw power and better turn rates. It does carry SOME weapons internally, but i doubt many pilots will be happy fighting with only the 6 internal A2A misses the F-35 internal bays allow only. In comparison to the rafale or Eurofighter A2A loads they may feel a tad under gunned, add external and the performance suffers, catch 22 I’d say. Sorry I don’t understand your point about EODAS. Eurofighter also has HOBS and HMD. Although that video made me laugh the idea that the pilots would be approached by a bogey but continue to fly in a striate line without any attempt to get out of the way of the missile that the SU-27 for some reason decided not to fire….
Not saying the F-35 will be a bad aircraft I think it will become the best striker in the world with time but it’s not rite for this comp.
redreidyCannot see the F-35 for India happening tbh
1. By the time the F-35 is available for purchase the Rafale and Eurofighter will be better in all aspects other than a vlo platform. Which on the F-35 can only be used on first day due to its abysmal internal bays.
2. India is involved in 2 very low aircraft programs which should be all things proper and correct a lot cheaper to purchase than the F-35. So i believe that they will simply wait for the ability. After all there is little chance of china/Pakistan getting stealth first anyway.
3. It appears to me that manoeuvrability is fairly important to the Indians, and there are serious questions as to how the F-35 will move on the dance floor.
In short i really cannot see it.
redreidyAgreed i do not like the idea of such heavvies as the tornados doing CAS in low intensity conflicts like afganistan and lybia its a waste of money when the job can be done by lighter single engined aircraft. but on the other hand it could be worse the americans are using stratigic bombers for CAS
redreidyI have no doubts in LockMart’s capability to churn out that many. I only wonder who will be buying them 😉
Every westernised airforce…. and im def not a f-35 fanboy, but it will basicaly replace the F-16 and legacy F-18s and pick up extra buyers like the UK. i dont think they have to worrie about sales.
redreidynow that’s a good one… 😀
imagine, you’re at the olympics, two boxers are in the final, and as they get on the ring, a third one pops up, who never even participated in qualifications and tries to join the fight… I wonder whether the refereee would let him do? :p
The french should be very happy, it means the Rafale is in a rather good position to get the contract, even taking into account that it is already shortlisted.
because the two strongest contenders (tiffy/F-35) duke it out while the weakest lies low and sneaks the win…… only joking the F-35 wont get this contract, its just the americans trying to stir the cooking pot.
redreidyStryker73 :
Personaly , if we all think about a European Army , the fact that the UK has a lot of Chally is almost irrelevant since you ‘re living on an island .
French Leclercs , Germans , Spanish , Swedes , Danish Leos , Italian Arietes , etc , can defend Europe on the ground .
What we need from the UK is a powerful RN , a powerful RAF and the usual Commandos and SpecOps . We also need the full cooperation with the various Intellingence Services (which is already excellent but we could do better) and we need the UK to decide to put down the US Echelon spying system once for all . 😡
This is VERY important for the European Industry .Just my one Euro …
Cheers .
I agree with much of what you said there but unfortunately i have got the feeling that the European nations are moving apart rather than together. Which is where i ultimately want them to be… also i agree about the UK not needing all of those challenger but i would prefer not to sell or scrap them as they are a unbelievably good piece of equipment.
@ SNORKUR
I cannot see the ground attack aircraft of the RAF going down to 80 in number. It may be possible that the tornado fleet will but with the Eurofighter and F-35 slated to be multirole i doubt even the UK’s new defence ignorant population would allow the fast jet fleet to fall to 80 airframes. Also there has been several high ranking admirals/ex admirals who have publically stated recently that the current escort fleet is an absolute minimum, let’s hope they continue to press home there message and the public becomes aware of the situation and takes the necessary steps to stop the situation becoming worse.
I think sooner or later your average citizen is going to wake up to what is happening and realise that the current government is leaving the country underpowered. For reasons that don’t add up, cut the defence budget but give billions of free money to Greece or lazy people who choose not to work. But when half of your population are only interested in “what Jordan did next” or Coronation Street instead of world affairs you can only half hope things will get better!
redreidyOn a slightly different note, is the Su-35S performing at Paris Airshow?
Maks 2011 is coming up fast, there we will all withness the F-15 and Su-35S demonstration display.
This should be a final reminder of the superior aerodynamic design of the Flanker.:diablo:
I think if you want to prove that your planes are the best aerodynamically you need to look to prove yourself over the European planes not the Americans. Granted the F-15 was fantastic in its day but it has been outdone in recent years. Bar the F-22 which i believe owes its performance to massive engines and TVC which is no bad thing although Eurofighter, Rafale and Gripen are agile without TVC.
redreidy4-5 squadron of Rafales would wipe out anything that’s based in the Falklands. Just obliterate the airport with storm shadows from stand off range, and you’re free to do whatever you wanted.
It had nothing to do with the Typhoon.
Nic
No offence but you make that sound extremely simple. I doubt you would be able to do that unchallenged (but i forgot rafale has a magic stealth cloak). Also you can bet your hat if they brought that many rafale that there would be more British assets on the island. Plus you would need British consent for the storm shadow to be sold to Argentina. Anyway that isn’t going to happen and i cannot see Argentina buying aircraft with the idea of using them to start another war. Very few people want that to happen.
I personally would like to see Argentina buy the Gripen although I know this is unlikely I think it will become a wonderful little multirole fighter, and if Brazil also bought they could possibly explore an option for a naval variant for future carriers.
redreidyJust responding to the rafale fan that i quoted!! A bit further up. He was suggesting that if argentine was to buy 4 or 5 sq of rafale, they could win a war for the Malvinas/Falkland’s because said aircraft is better than the Eurofighter that would be deployed to defend it in his opinion.
Of course i don’t actually believe there will be another war over the islands for many reasons. I just though i would reply one silly comment with another.
redreidyWell would definately allow to easily retake the falklands if the argentinians were so inclined.
Nic
Yawn……. 😀 British don’t just have the Eurofighter our armed forces amount to a little more than that. Plus I’d love to see 4 Eurofighters wipe out 4-5 sq. of Rafales
redreidyWould make more sense for them to be BA609s.
Yes exactly what i was getting at just couldnt remember what they were called! thanks 😀
redreidywould be nice to see her near belfast. would be like a royal navy theme park!
redreidyi wonder if a private company would be able to the helicopter port and buy a few civi ofsprays they would be really handy service for the big money business men to have access to!
also how far into the thames would you be able to get a ship of that size?
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