Well, there will be indeed not a good outcome. The best outcome, in my humble opinion, would be an UN mandate with which the Spanish government will be involved in Iraq again. Hopefully Germany, France (and Belgium :D) will join the coalition under an UN mandate. But not only European countries but also Muslim countries like Pakistan or Indonesia. In this way you can also win the popular vote in countries like Spain and in The Netherlands who are actively involved in Iraq.

But we will see what is going to happen in the next view months.

Originally posted by TTP
Dutchy,

You make some valid points in your analysis, and today many reports in the US are alleging the AQ involvement, but be very careful about what you say. Essentially you are advocating that if AQ attacks a nation who is allied with the US in the war on terrorism, then that nations peoples will run scared and vote out whoever the leaders were that got them involved. So your letting the terrorists win!! all they have to do is Terrorize, and they achieve their goal, which is to deter other nations from fighting them.
Also, there is the touchy subject concerning the will of most Spanish people were against fighting in Iraq, and I can see many crying “We told You So!” but by cow-towing to these Cowards who blow up trains and office buildings full of innocent civilians is not the correct path in my opinion.
You can also argue that Iraq/AQ is not Spain’s problem, its America’s fight…You may have a point and certainly public support…But When great nations cower in the face of adversity they cease being great…The US could have easily not entered both World War I and II by saying its Europe’s problem!! I’m sure most Americans felt that way, in fact I know they did….We could have just fought the Japanese…..but we didn’t and I’d like to think many nations are the better for it…Remember, the Spanish were attacked because of their alleged involvement with the US…So why did AQ attack the US on Sept 11????? We weren’t fighting anybody on Sept 10th? Because these terrorists HATE ALL FREE /NON MUSLIM PEOPLES, they don’t care about Spain, or alliances…their ultimate goal is a extreme Muslim World………in my opinion…..They must be hunted and destroyed by all free peoples, just like Hitler and his ilk were back in the 40’s
TTP

TTP,

I made my remarks not because it is my opinion, but just because I wanted to shed my light on the current situation. Unfortunately I think this is kind of the way the world works. And you can see it happening, the Conservative party was in the lead by a margin in the polls two weeks ago and look at the results the socialist party has won the elections. You can see, which was to be expected, that such an event has an influence on the elections. The new prime minister in Spain even announced withdraw of the Spanish troops from Iraq. In that way, if AQ was responsible for this attack, it has worked. On a personal note, I would say let the troops stay in Iraq, but hopefully this will be within an UN-mandate so that even Muslim troops could enter Iraq.

PS. please don’t compare anyone or anything to Nazi Germany / Hitler, that comparishement is falls. That was the organized extermination of a whole population.

This is my first post on this matter. I must say I was shocked, first and foremost for the people in Spain who have lived true this kind of ordeal, and of course for all the people whom are directly involved, all the relatives of the people whom didnot service this attack and all the other people whom are close to the survivors and the dead.

My sympathies are with the Spanish population.

These kind of attacks brings the violence closer to home, especially when one remembers that I visited Madrid and those train stations only a few months ago.

————-

That said. My two pennies will be as following.

I look at the world from a real politik view. So I see only organisations who have something to gain from such an attack. If you look it from such a view then it will become more likely that Muslim organisations, or Iraqi sympatizians, are to blame for such an attack. I have heard over the radio, and of course the Spanish people are the people to vote, that it will be more likely that the socialist party will win the elections if Al Q. is to blame, because of the troops send to Iraq against the will of the majority of the Spanish citizens*. By doing this such an organisation will influence the elections and might help to bring back into power the socialist party which in turn will get the troops out of Iraq in the middle long term, and therewith achieving a great victory. On the other hand, what has the ETA to gain from this. I would say nothing. By blowing up that many people you would certainly loose people whom are sympathetic to your cause. The most the ETA has killed in one attack was I believe (correct me if I am wrong) “only” 28 people for which they apologized. So this would be out of character for the ETA. The current government would have a lot to “gain” by blaming the ETA, because of the elections.

*If I might to make a parallel to the Dutch elections after mr. Fortuin was shot. The elections were only ten days after he was shot and his party won the elections, even more then the polls predicted. So you can see a direct influence with this kind of attacks on a nation.

On a personal note. I hope I am wrong with this analysis, because then The Netherlands might be next. Nowadays our government is deciding whether the Dutch troops should say in Iraq for another six months. Therefore if an organisation would want to influence the Dutch public and therewith the politicians it would be, in there perspective, an excellent move to strike a target in Holland and to strike fear into the harts of my fellow countrymen. I say again I hope to be wrong but unfortunately I can’t rule it out.

Originally posted by frankvw
Buildings ? B-what? What are you talking about? 😀

-Sound of a van with darkened windows stopping in front of Dutchy’s house-

Just saw two cop cars stopping infront of my house, does that count?

I don’t see new aircraft delivered to the Maxian Airforce for the forseable future. But if a country were to give aircraft away then the US would be a prime candidate. Perhaps some F-16A/B ADF, which would fit the bill nicely. But like you said, the budged is extreemly limited, is to maintain these jets will be a problem.

I use it myself, very good. Some site will not work, because they were made by a Microsoft product.