PSS I find this thread inspiring, like some of its pre-assessors in which I was heavily evolved, you know whom I am talking about 😉 .

PS sorry for the long read this is just my point of view.

Originally posted by TTP
Hand 87-5

Your partly correct in your analysis about the roots of the Mid-East problem stems from the Arab-Israeli issue, but I believe a large part of the problem is the inability of the Muslims to adapt and change Islam to “fit” into the 21st century. Let me explain,
I just read a facinating book about this issue, the short of it is that Islam hasn’t changed since 600AD, The arab nations can’t figure out how to evolve a working democratic type government that is SEPERATE from the teachings of Islam. Essentially Islam serves as a guide for governing. Christianity, Judaism never teach about goverrnance. Now the problem is the Arab world has not been able to change and adapt to the modern world. One of the facinating facts is if you take away oil revenues the nation of Finland outproduces the entire Arab world, a nation of only 4 million! So the arabs watch as their armies are routinely embarrasssed on the battlefieild, and the West has past them by in all areas of science and technology. There is a large boiling resentment brewing, largely due to their rigid brand of Islam, but they can’t blame Islam, so they lash out against the Israeli’s, Americans, and any other easy scapegoat except the real culprit…That is why if a democracy can evolve in Iraq that includes freedom of religion, and it becomes a sucess, maybe there is hope for the future…..an interesting theory, with alot of facts supporting it.

TTP

TTP and to whoever finds this remotely interested,

As you probably know I am fascinated by your opinion. I must confess I like every once view on the world especially when they come from abroad.

If you really want to go back to the beginning, the rut of the problem, it doesn’t lay in what you have mentioned. In my, ever so humble opinion, the rut of the problem lies in the very nature of Islamism. When Mohamed walked this earth the society was totally different from what it is today. The problem is that what ever is being said in the Koran is the truth. Within Christianity you have a body, i.e. the Vatican, whom can “control” the thoughts of the Christian world. What I mean is that Christianity is evolving and that the Muslim world isn’t. The strange thing is, in the year “600” AD the Muslim world was far more advanced then the Christian world, what better example then that Spain was largely occupied by Muslims. So their culture, science, sociology was by far more advanced then the Christian world. In the centuries the Vatican made “changes” in the Christian faith and thereby “adapting” to the new world order. The Islamic faith didn’t, largely due to not having a representative body like the Vatican. Nowadays, there are a view Muslims which feel “left out” by the rest of the world because they can’ t interpretative the Koran like “we” (indeed I am raised to be a Christian but currently being an Agnostic I indeed like to use the “”) do with the Bible. But I must admit, being an Agnostic like I am, I feel that the difference between Muslims, Judaism and Christianity are zero. This is because they basically believe in the same God, the God of Abraham.

Hopefully we all resolve our difference, like “we” Christians have done with the Jude’s, and all live happily together.

The most striking was in all the post was that some of you mentioned that the terrorist are from lower “class” people, and that is factually incorrect. Most of them are upper middle class people, whom can think of them selves. The sell of AQ in Hamburg were of students attending University over there, so definitely not lower class. I do think there is some frustration in the Middle East Countries and that it indeed is focused on the Israeli situation. But nevertheless, the problem is not with the Palestinians, which is a common mistake. Palestinians are not very welcome, and actuality treaded by par example Syrians or Egyptians like second-rate citizens, so they are still refugees even though they have lived in those countries for over 50 years now. Therefore I would say that the rut of the problem isn’t the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, largely due to the English of course, but the holding back of the Muslim community because of a book which is written over 1400 years ago and isn’t really up-to-date anymore. I would like to see evolving a form of Islamism which is more adaptive to our time, hopefully this will evolve in Western Europe due to it’s large Muslim community.

Bear in mind that nowadays in The Netherlands 1 in 15 Dutchmen are from “foreign” origin. Most of my fellow Muslim citizens are trying to adapt to their new homeland, and excusably there is something evolving like Neder-Muslimism, so the majority of the Dutch Muslim community is evolving like this, therefore I hope, no analysis in this case, this will have a good effect on the Muslim community in the world, especially since Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world, which is trying to cope with their extremist as well.

I think you can extract my point of view and my hope for the future from above. But I think the Muslim community have to adapted itself to the new century and therefore bombing like America and its allies are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan isn’t going to do anything any good. If America really wants to show its commitment to the Muslim world then they should stop to back regimes like Saudi Arabia and its like. They should start to show some respect towards the Muslim world and not trash them like they have done until now.

I think there is a lot wrong with the world nowadays and that it can’ t be solved if everyone is thinking of its own interested. Which in turn makes me less optimistic about the future. Hopefully we will find away to adapted and coincides together in the future. But all depends on respect from both parties, and respect the sanquately of a HUMAN LIFE.

We all inhabited this small planet and have to make the best of it. It really sound rather foolish to me that one group says it understands God better then the other, that really sounds like the most arrogant statement you can make towards everyone, you know the same God better then someone else, it is just to ridicules to mention it.

I sincerely hope that we all can work this out among ourselves and all life happily ever after………………..

…………..but I fair the worst.

PS I would like to note that I write this after at least 6 glasses of beer and four glasses (rather full) of Whiskey, therefore you can be assured of two things:

1. I speak from the bottom of my heart
2. I can’t be held accountable for this, because I am pretty much too drunk for it.

It is 2h15 PM right now and I am going to bed so good night to all of you.

Will those F-16 be new build or AMRAC stock once?

As I understood, the main objective was to get all non believers, i.e. American, Birtish and Frensh forces, out of their most holy country, Saudi Arabia. TTP, AQ didn’t like you back then either, remember the attacks on US ambassies in Africa?

BTW, postponing the elections wasn’t the correct thing to do either, I mean then you also giving into terrorism. We in Holland didn’t postpone the elections after mr. Fortuin was killed either, for this reason. There was no right decision only a very degree of wrong once.

That indeed will be a positive thing, Spain will look to Europe and might even help to get us a constitution. You can see the Bush administration swift a bit towards more influence for the UN, which will be also a positive thing, so in the end we might get more united (Europe and USA I mean) against these kind of groups.

Well, there will be indeed not a good outcome. The best outcome, in my humble opinion, would be an UN mandate with which the Spanish government will be involved in Iraq again. Hopefully Germany, France (and Belgium :D) will join the coalition under an UN mandate. But not only European countries but also Muslim countries like Pakistan or Indonesia. In this way you can also win the popular vote in countries like Spain and in The Netherlands who are actively involved in Iraq.

But we will see what is going to happen in the next view months.