So you think it is acceptable for NATO and the UN to interfere where money or oil is at stake but ignore real problems?

I don’t see how this question fits with the Balkans issues. If they weren’t real problems, then what is? I’ve already told you what I think about the conflicts in Rwanda, Sudan etc. As you say, selective morality probably does apply here. How remote is the conflict and so on. I don’t see any grounds for your argument about NATO and economical interests as a leading factor, though.

Let’s not forget that the UN is/has been involved in numerous operations during the time of its existence.

Department of Peacekeeping Operations

Still, I believe it could have been something if the member states had been more willing to give the organisation what it both needs and deserves; bigger and sharper teeth.

thanks to NATO and the US, a sovereign nation is a stroke of a pen away from becoming a new country… I am sure you think it was the right solution now… but that pen stroke was neither performed in your interests or anyone elses outside Washington… you assume your needs will always coincide with those suits?

Kosovo again? In that case, you know what I said earlier. Besides, I thought the independency issue had been shelved? Perhaps it is best if Kosovo remains with Serbia, now that Milosevic is gone?

You’re probably lucky they couldn’t find Norway on a map…

😀

The world isn’t that simple, Garry. Even if something were to happen, our secret killer penguins will deal with whatever comes our way…….wait….oh cr@p, did I just say that?! 😀

but now that Europe and NATO has saved the Albanians in Kosovo I am sure you will find more and more arriving on your doorstep… their reward for manipulating your media… your reward… well I guess you’ll find the extra drugs and prostitution fun for a while.

Actually, the trafficing problems here mostly involve individuals from the Baltic countries, according to the media.

This is not meant as a counter-argument, but Belgrade isn’t exactly Europe’s shining beacon when it comes to low levels of organised crime, either. Well, at least someone put an end to Mr. Zeljko Raznjatovic, although it would have been better to put the guy on a trial.

don’t bother coming up with reasons against intervening when they can’t be bothered intervening.

Agree.

Still as long as the economy is OK who cares what our government does… to other people.

Like assisting the people of Afghanistan?

don’t beat yourself up over it mate,live a good just life and pray you’ll never be in that unfortunate position our grandfathers were,they did what they had to do……

Well said.

Djnik:

You’ve got some relevant points, and I support some of them. A lot of things can be said about the US and the West; double standards and selective morality as GarryB points out, are clearly among those things. I guess it’s much about realpolitik, which is a basic issue with most sovereign countries.

Still, sometimes I think it’s better to act in one way or another than to be restrained by morality issues. I rarely support arguments like “we didn’t do anything/care about that, so why should we do anything/care about this?” It’ll only keep us from moving on.

In an open fist fight in hell between 3 fighters that all fight dirty who is the bad guy?

The Bosnian Serbs, originally funded and supported by Serbia, initiated the fighting and committed the most extensive crimes during most of the period. They had the resources to do it. The Croat 1995 offensive in Krajina and Eastern Slavonia is a similar issue, and I’m not exactly sure how the UN and NATO responded to it, although the Americans claim that they urged the Croatians to abort the operation. I guess you have to see it in connection with what the rebels did in Krajina in 1991. Nevertheless, the Croats did commit ethnic cleansing of Krajina Serb civilians, something which drew attention (Ante Gotovina, Rahim Ademi etc.)

The Bosnian Muslims were the ones who requested a Western intervention. The UN, in its efforts to avoid getting too deeply involved, long hesitated to make a strong and more decisive commitment. Yes, they took sides with the Muslim/Croat Federation, eventually, but I guess one should put it up against what actually happened up till the summer of 1995. Some may say that the Slovenians, Croats and Bosnian Muslims started the whole thing by running for independence, but this doesn’t change the fact that the Serbs took the military initiative and did the things they did. Neither Operation OLUJA or the actions of Nasar Oric and his associates change this fact.
Milosevic realised that BSA offensives and siege operations would only make things worse for Republika Srpska. It was he who urged the Americans to turn their eyes on Karadsic and Mladic.

Hense Rwandan Genocide that everyone ignores and effectively still does to this day.

I pretty much agree on Rwanda. It still bothers me, as does Darfur. It’s hard to say what the UN could have done, though. The experiences from Bosnia do not exactly tell of a strong, effective and decisive effort.

Is rear visibility (like F-16) overrated?

I think it can offer an advantage in situations when you’re engaged defensive with a bandit pursuing you at your six (not that this happens a lot during live engagements). It can also improve your ability to detect incoming surface-to-air fire when you’re coming off a ground target, i.e. during a climb-out following a steep dive bombing run.

I meant if a mig 29 with its radar turn off and approach from the rear. How can a F-16 detect it?

Situational awareness. Move your head like if it were on a swivel and check six often, especially when you know you have a reason to do it.

All this is just my guess, of course.

One Galeb G-4 also returned to Udbine AB after a sortie during which it was hit by a Stinger missile.The tail was replaced and the airplane brought back to service.

Do you know who engaged it?

I see there is a star symbol on the flag. Is it a JRViPVO aircraft? Was this before Belgrade decided to step out of RS’ and RSK’s campaigns, or did the RVRS use former JRViPVO aircraft?

Deliberate attacks on civilian infrastructure was the tactic NATO used

I’ve tried to explain this before. However, I don’t feel I have the grounds to discuss political and ethnical aspects about Kosovo right yet, so don’t expect me to answer you on that. I need to study it first. I am pretty sure about Bosnia, though. You can push it until your face turns blue; my stance is clear.

Warcriminals on the otherside…national heroes on the other…isen’t it so with almoust every great (or at least famous) leaders??

Deliberate attacks on civilian personnel, sometimes in large scales…it shouldn’t matter who’s side you’re on. Besides, isn’t it a fact that many Serbs, especially the younger ones, tend to see things in a perspective that differs strongly from that of stubborn nationalists?