Thanks for bringing to light the very same point i made earlier. You need the media to tell you whats happenings so “MEDIA TELLS YOU WHATS HAPPENING”. sorry to dispoint you guys but the media do not follow fair and total freedom of expression doctrine rather the Partial need to know basis and controled form which mostly results in this response of surprise you ppl show when we point into some FACTS which you thought never existed. Lets put this way those facts were never told to you.
I agree that its not your fault but then please do accept that fact that may be all facts are not exposed to u ppl by ur so called free press.

I’ve tried to make similar points myself. It’s good to see that we share some common grounds! 🙂

What I meant to say is that I’ve never received that information from any Norwegian media. I usually read at least one serious newspaper every day, and I watch some news on TV. Still, I might have missed something.

Good points by kev35 and Grey Area.

regarding the actions performed in the Islamic world, then there are many dimensions to it.

Yes, but the more sensasionalist parts of the media often neglect this fact and thus they fail to provide a more balanced overall picture of the actual situation. This adds fuel to those who really need to reflect more over this issue in order to avoid a narrow impression.

So reaction is more of frustration towards their own Leaders which fail to give a strong answer in response to all this event. Basic requirements from most of the muslim countries (people) were to ask the Gov of the Denmark to take legal action against the Newspaper. Some countries summend their embassadors back from denmark which add further to the frustrations of the people in the muslim countries where nothing offical was done apart from an official line of condemn which i may add we are use to and means nothing frankly.
(…)
Many of the Muslim countries are not living in exact democracies and as a result they have to sometimes use physical measures to ensure their leader do hear them. As most of the time “The Leaders” are least botherd.
(…)
My explaination of all this is to give you a feel of what goes in these countries??? You cant exactly expect to take the president in court for something (As was done in USA or can be done in other west countries). So frustration leads to desperation and despration leads to voilance.

I understand what you’re saying, and I must add that this point has been described several times by some experts and politicians here in Norway. Still, it does in no way justify violent responses, and more of those who stand outside the moderate ranks need to understand this. As you say, it’s totally unacceptable.

So what should the people do, yes some places they peacefully expressed their resentment but all those places are foreign countries like Norway, England, Denmark france etc all are not muslim countries.

I believe kursed has already contradicted this.

Every religion is peaceful but some circumstances are pretty much clearly defined and acceptable according to the code of conduct in that religion.

No matter how important it is in a religious context; incitement to “religious” hatred and violence can and will not be sanctioned in a modern and democratic society.

In case of my religion its pretty much part of a severe offense and is acceptable by the followers. Here the respect of the religion come. You may not like the idea but if you really claim to respect the religious values of others then you have to respect this aswell.

In what context/for what reason should capital punishment be carried out?

I can’t speak for anyone else, but my respect has its limits. Reason weighs a lot.

Ignorance you may call or lack of respect still the practice continues.

In my opinion, it is clear that there are (too) many individuals in the world who are incapable of mastering religion in a proper and reasonable way. This also goes for certain ideologies and politics.

As long as man walks this Earth… 😡 🙁

But as it’s the case with most of your lot you chose to take a stereotypical view of Muslims. Yes there have been riots and yes there have been burning of effigies but mind you local politics of those nations have played a bigger role in such acts then just the cartoons depicting the holy Prophet (PBUH).

I don’t know if “most of our lot” have fallen for stereotypes, but otherwise – good point.

It always helps if you care to read news a little in detail.

Unfortunately, that can be a part of the problem itself. As I’ve said earlier; the media isn’t always careful to provide the big picture, and I fear that many people fail to keep this in mind when reading the newspapers, watching news on TV etc.

The protests in Pakistan for example didn’t turn violent because people were specifically angry about the cartoons but due to the recent inflation in prices of items of daily use.

If true, that sure didn’t hit the media here. I guess that underlines the points of both you and me.

And no I will not be condoning the acts of those who have chosen the path of violence to get their message across in this fiasco. Muslims want to prove the Prophet (PBUH) was a man of peace and to get their point across in a violent manner would mean nothing else but hypocrisy. But repeating what I just said before, majority of Muslims has not gone down the path of violence to get their message heard. To choose to ignore them and take a xenophobic view of the situation is your choice altogether it’s not the fault of Muslims.

Again, good points.

Man do you know the punishment for insulting the Prophet (PBUH) either verbally or physically is death without regard if its commited by a Non muslim or even by a muslim. So you can exactly know what i mean by non physical response.

That’s irrelevant. Whatever the scriptures say; it is wrong and we can’t have it like that. Responding with murder is the way of fundamentalists who are out of touch with reality, not sane individuals living in today’s society.

So who do u think the person (those involved) was comparing with when he insulted our Prophet (PBUH).

Well, actually one of the cartoonists (I think) intended to point at the fact that some “Muslim” individuals abuse Islam as “spiritual ammunition” for conducting terrorism.

A clear n present provocation exists and your closing your eyes n saying man y is the Muslim world acting in this way? We dont care how the west is looking at the reaction and making assumption regarding our behavior when they r so dumb to comprehend the very reason to cause this behavior is a man within their ranks.

Maybe you should have another look at my previous posts.

You must remember yourself that you don’t represent all Muslims. Some Muslims in Norway, the Middle-East and I’m sure in other parts of the world have reacted in a more moderate and reflected way than you have. Many Muslims have condemned acts of violence and blind generalisation.

Yes he (those involved) is only 1 man and yes we only want him simple.

Who? The editor of Jyllands-Posten?

I am however glad to see that you don’t share the views of those who blame entire countries over this affair.

the german courts have over turned a previous decision that means if terrorists hijack a plane with the purpose of crashing it into a full stadium during the world cup, it will NOT be shot down, the passengers have the right to life over the football fans….eh!! if your on a plane being aimed at a full stadium, your definatly gonna die and the german decision means so are the fans….dosn’t make any sense to me. Whats your views on this? :confused:

Link?

No u depend on the media to guide u in this department??

I fear that many people don’t reflect enough over unbalanced media reports and the fact that more or less extreme elements on “both sides” of this conflict seek to set the agenda. Things like ignorance, narrow-mindedness, fear and assumptions may easily play the ball right into the laps of the extremists, giving them more influence. I think this applies to societies in both Western and Muslim countries.

I’ve also noticed that editors, columnists, readers etc. have stated that it’s important to be aware of the overall picture and to seek a balanced and realistic impression of the situation. Stigmatisation and demonising of all Danish, Syrians, Iranians, Indonesians, Lebanese, Palestinians, Norwegians, Germans, Americans, British etc. won’t lead anyone to anything good.

It’s sometimes fair to criticise the media over this. What about cartoons of Jews published in some Arab newspapers? How much criticism do they receive from people in the Muslim world?

Since ur acting so naive lets give another example. The Catholic n the Protestants ( i know a thin line and shall to be careful with utmost respect).
The same old routine, they march every time been done from ages n yet there r bloody voilance between them causing loss of precious life. Isnt it the west were moral values, freedom of expression, self morality, ,moral ethics and in some cases personal understanding is at its highest.

That particular conflict is way out of my league and I can’t speak for them. I’m a non-religious guy with very little pity for those who seek to (ab)use religion for the sake of their own agendas, whether it involves so-called Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc.

Rationality sometimes is not in understanding rather then in restraining. The Newspaper if would have shown restraint on his part even if not having good understanding of the implications i guess its automatic, non of this would have happened. Yet saying all this, I guess its my wishful thinking. Ill like to add my voice by saying wish we could if not understand then restrain by not doing things which can cause conflicts within us.

Again, common sense is near the heart of this issue. Research for more knowledge and better understanding could also do a great deal.

PS: No my religion does not allow me to make cartoons in response of one so i guess the non physical reply goes out of the window.

Exactly what do you mean about a “non-physical reply”? What is your honest opinion about murder and attacks on non-Muslim interests versus peaceful, rational and legitimate protests?

You park your car in your neighbours front yard coz you have the freedom and you enjoy it ( i hope got the point). Same goes for the freedom for speech.

It often boils down to common sense. However, physical actions often differ from more abstract actions like oral or written expressions. It’s often a lot harder to ignore or avoid something physical, especially if somebody decides to park his/her car in your front yard, than to ignore an oral or written insult (although I guess this is very subjective).

As per your lack of understanding to the reaction generated across the muslim world might b due to the fact of unawarness into the thinking of understaing of Islam as religion.

I understand and respect any reasonable, peaceful and legal reactions aimed at the particular newspaper, but I cannot accept any violent and illegal reactions.

When it comes to consumer boycotts and calls for official apologies:

I think it’s important to be aware of the fact that many people in several Muslim countries are raised to think differently than most people in the West. It has become apparent that we don’t share an equal perspective on individual and collective freedom, responsibility, the limits of government influence on society etc.

As we’re raised and shaped into thinking and viewing things in different ways, friction and conflicts arise more easily. The important task of understanding each other can be a real challenge sometimes.

Respect is very, very important. In order to have respect, you often need at least some understanding. In order to have understanding, you often need a will to understand. I think that type of will is, unfortunately, weak or absent in many cases.

I think many of the events we’ve seen during the last few weeks indicate a lack of mutual cultural relativism. This is a problem which needs to be dealt with. This requires mutual will, responsibility and openness. Motivation shouldn’t be an issue.

one should have the respect for others.

Agree. In my opinion, the freedom of expression comes with responsibility. However, this responsibility should in most cases be individual and not constrained by stringent laws.

as you probably know by now that bounties have been put on the heads of the culprits guess its right if one has the right to call a Guy living in a cave in some mountain the biggest threat to humanity and putting a reward in millions of dollars on his head, why not if same is done from the muslim world , considering the blashmy against the religion.
Thoughts???

So you think it’s appropriate to put the cartoonists on the same shelf as Bin Laden? In your personal opinion, are the cartoons just as bad as deliberate murder on thousands of innocent civilians?

I suppose I could say thanks for making my point more clear. You opinion, which you’re entitled to, shows a perspective which is quite different from what I’m used to. I respect your religion and your love for your Prophet, but I must say I’m having a hard time understanding that statement of yours. It sounds more or less fundamentalistic to me.

By refering to the cartoons drawn regarding jews etc stuff in the muslim media is counterd by the jews, us, western media regarding the so called terrorists which are a threat to your values. 1 to 1 we stand equal,

I can’t speak for everyone, but I try to be careful not to let my contempt for the actions of a few terrorists calling themselves Muslims, negatively affect my view on Muslims in general. I think many moderate Muslims feel the same way about Jews in i.e. Israel. It’s very important to avoid the trap of black/white thinking.

In Saudi Arabia for example there are daily cartoon depicting Jews as greedy, hook nosed beings, hell bent on malice and deception – this is just as offensive as the Muslim cartoons and reminisant of Nazi propoganda. How come Arab newspapers are not slated in the same way as the Danish and other European newspapers??

Ah, I just looove double standards… 🙂