EGPHYou’re not trying to use that as propaganda, are you?
Yes, I am trying to score points in saying that, but under the circumstances I think it’s perfectly justified.
Paul
Propaganda is everywhere my friend! Here is a final bit of it:
From a song called “When murder isn’t murder”
“There are murderers in Ireland, but they’re not of Irish thought,
there are terrorists in Ireland but they serve a foreign law.
They will never face a Diplock court or rot in H-block cells,
For murder isn’t murder when it serves the crown so well”
EGPHYou’re not trying to use that as propaganda, are you?
Yes, I am trying to score points in saying that, but under the circumstances I think it’s perfectly justified.
Paul
Propaganda is everywhere my friend! Here is a final bit of it:
From a song called “When murder isn’t murder”
“There are murderers in Ireland, but they’re not of Irish thought,
there are terrorists in Ireland but they serve a foreign law.
They will never face a Diplock court or rot in H-block cells,
For murder isn’t murder when it serves the crown so well”
EGPHIt’s the ignorant, narrow minded approach and the way you seem to be using this almost as a point scoring exercise that are the problems.
Paul
Everyone is point-scoring in this thread!;)
May I use this post to share some powerful lines from the song “Joe McDonnell”, the link is above somewhere but I suppose no one will listen to it especially as it is a song that goes on forever:
“And you dare to call me a terrorist,
while you look down your guns,
and I think of all the things that you have done.
You have plundered many nations, divided many lands,
you have terrorised their people,you ruled with an iron hand,
and you brought this reign of terror to our land”
EGPHIt’s the ignorant, narrow minded approach and the way you seem to be using this almost as a point scoring exercise that are the problems.
Paul
Everyone is point-scoring in this thread!;)
May I use this post to share some powerful lines from the song “Joe McDonnell”, the link is above somewhere but I suppose no one will listen to it especially as it is a song that goes on forever:
“And you dare to call me a terrorist,
while you look down your guns,
and I think of all the things that you have done.
You have plundered many nations, divided many lands,
you have terrorised their people,you ruled with an iron hand,
and you brought this reign of terror to our land”
EGPHThis is really driving me up the wall but just because there are so many posts to reply to now! I leave my computer for a few hours and I have been bombarded with posts!
Where to start? I have already stated that I do not condone the attacks the IRA committed against innocent civilians and when people begin naming names of children killed in ‘The Troubles’ it doesn’t really affect my argument, any attack the IRA committed which killed innocent civilians where it could have been avoided “was wrong, let there be no ambiguity about that” to quote Gerry Adams when talking about the Massereene barracks shooting. Which for the record I do not necessarily condone.
As for ex-IRA members now leading Northern Ireland, who led South Africa between 1994-1999 (Nelson Mandela) and who then took over from him until 2008 (Thabo Mbeki) both ‘terrorists’ who were behind the murders of many innocent whites and blacks in South Africa. Should they be pardoned for their crimes. I just hope that Iris Robinson has done enough to discredit her party so that the unionist vote in the next Northern Irish elections is split equally between DUP and UUP and we can finally see Martin McGuinness given the post of First Minister of Northern Ireland, I will have a party that day!
I do not agree that those who have no involvement in the Troubles cannot talk about it, I have spoken to a number of people who lived through the Troubles from BOTH SIDES of the divide and I take their stories into consideration, as I have also said I have spoken to a gentleman who watched his father be shot by the IRA as he got into his car! That was a sick and callous attack! How many here would support the ANC in their campaign of the British Army in their campaign to rid Afghanistan of the evil Taliban which has resulted in several thousand civilian casualties in only 9 years of war? A war which the British army will never win but lets not get into that!
EGPHThis is really driving me up the wall but just because there are so many posts to reply to now! I leave my computer for a few hours and I have been bombarded with posts!
Where to start? I have already stated that I do not condone the attacks the IRA committed against innocent civilians and when people begin naming names of children killed in ‘The Troubles’ it doesn’t really affect my argument, any attack the IRA committed which killed innocent civilians where it could have been avoided “was wrong, let there be no ambiguity about that” to quote Gerry Adams when talking about the Massereene barracks shooting. Which for the record I do not necessarily condone.
As for ex-IRA members now leading Northern Ireland, who led South Africa between 1994-1999 (Nelson Mandela) and who then took over from him until 2008 (Thabo Mbeki) both ‘terrorists’ who were behind the murders of many innocent whites and blacks in South Africa. Should they be pardoned for their crimes. I just hope that Iris Robinson has done enough to discredit her party so that the unionist vote in the next Northern Irish elections is split equally between DUP and UUP and we can finally see Martin McGuinness given the post of First Minister of Northern Ireland, I will have a party that day!
I do not agree that those who have no involvement in the Troubles cannot talk about it, I have spoken to a number of people who lived through the Troubles from BOTH SIDES of the divide and I take their stories into consideration, as I have also said I have spoken to a gentleman who watched his father be shot by the IRA as he got into his car! That was a sick and callous attack! How many here would support the ANC in their campaign of the British Army in their campaign to rid Afghanistan of the evil Taliban which has resulted in several thousand civilian casualties in only 9 years of war? A war which the British army will never win but lets not get into that!
EGPHI’ve had to delete another posting that was little more than an intemperate rant directed at an individual member.
Once again, please discuss the subject of the thread, and not one another.
Thanks
GA
ps.. I agree with BSG-75.
Aww! I can only suppose someone said something nasty about me and I never got to read it! Shame that :p
Will be back on to answer your questions shortly just a bit busy at the moment, just in case you thought for a second I had backed down and were about to breathe a sigh of relief! No surrender!
EGPHI’ve had to delete another posting that was little more than an intemperate rant directed at an individual member.
Once again, please discuss the subject of the thread, and not one another.
Thanks
GA
ps.. I agree with BSG-75.
Aww! I can only suppose someone said something nasty about me and I never got to read it! Shame that :p
Will be back on to answer your questions shortly just a bit busy at the moment, just in case you thought for a second I had backed down and were about to breathe a sigh of relief! No surrender!
EGPHJust a few points of history for you, Sinn Fein ARE NOT and HAVE NEVER BEEN and most probably WILL NEVER BE a terrorist organisation of any kind, I walk around day in and day out with a lapel pin of their logo opn my blazer and no cop has ever stopped me for being a terrorist, though a British soldier did once look at me funny :p. IRA/PIRA are much the same organisation if we are referring to the 1969 – 1998 conflict, the other branch of the IRA were the OIRA (Original IRA) whose constitution written in 1969 forbid them ever to shoot at troops unless it was in self defence or defence of innocent civilians, the only time they ever engaged British troops was on Bloody Sunday when it was clear innocent civilians were being killed, incidentally they never shot any of the barbaric animals, alas!
Any members of Sinn Fein have been allowed to take office as their ‘crimes’ have been pardoned. I respect McGuinness, Kelly and Adams for the politicians they are today, especially Adams who is an excellent orator! Their histories are irrelevant. To add to that point how many British soldiers who killed/intimidated or tortured innocent civilians were ever brought to justice, none that I have heard of, I think all those involved in Bloody Sunday should be severely reprimanded and if it were up to me Sir Mike Jackson should face a firing squad as the only surviving commander of that atrocity.
Also just to clarify the soldiers were brought into NI as a last resort when the Protestants began attacking Catholics and many were driven from their homes. Things then turned ugly, some say the Catholics began attacking their protectors some say the British army got exasperated protecting those that did not favour British rule, depends which book you read to be honest!
It seems however that I have at least succeeded in highlighting the fact that the British army were not the angels they like to portray and are guilty of countless acts of horrible torture, many of which I am sure remain hidden by the British state.
I may evolve this into a wider debate about British legitimacy in Northern Ireland and whether there should be a united Ireland, might provide more fruitful than the bickering over terrorist offences that is currently going on. Just remember if the IRA were terrorists so were the British army just state sponsored terrorists!
EGPHJust a few points of history for you, Sinn Fein ARE NOT and HAVE NEVER BEEN and most probably WILL NEVER BE a terrorist organisation of any kind, I walk around day in and day out with a lapel pin of their logo opn my blazer and no cop has ever stopped me for being a terrorist, though a British soldier did once look at me funny :p. IRA/PIRA are much the same organisation if we are referring to the 1969 – 1998 conflict, the other branch of the IRA were the OIRA (Original IRA) whose constitution written in 1969 forbid them ever to shoot at troops unless it was in self defence or defence of innocent civilians, the only time they ever engaged British troops was on Bloody Sunday when it was clear innocent civilians were being killed, incidentally they never shot any of the barbaric animals, alas!
Any members of Sinn Fein have been allowed to take office as their ‘crimes’ have been pardoned. I respect McGuinness, Kelly and Adams for the politicians they are today, especially Adams who is an excellent orator! Their histories are irrelevant. To add to that point how many British soldiers who killed/intimidated or tortured innocent civilians were ever brought to justice, none that I have heard of, I think all those involved in Bloody Sunday should be severely reprimanded and if it were up to me Sir Mike Jackson should face a firing squad as the only surviving commander of that atrocity.
Also just to clarify the soldiers were brought into NI as a last resort when the Protestants began attacking Catholics and many were driven from their homes. Things then turned ugly, some say the Catholics began attacking their protectors some say the British army got exasperated protecting those that did not favour British rule, depends which book you read to be honest!
It seems however that I have at least succeeded in highlighting the fact that the British army were not the angels they like to portray and are guilty of countless acts of horrible torture, many of which I am sure remain hidden by the British state.
I may evolve this into a wider debate about British legitimacy in Northern Ireland and whether there should be a united Ireland, might provide more fruitful than the bickering over terrorist offences that is currently going on. Just remember if the IRA were terrorists so were the British army just state sponsored terrorists!
EGPHI am not denying that this is a very sad story and any death is sad to a great extent, however if you are trying to use the fact that he threw himself on the bomb as propaganda, at the end of the day, they could have got the hell out of there! I am not trying to say that this is not a sad story!
EGPHI am not denying that this is a very sad story and any death is sad to a great extent, however if you are trying to use the fact that he threw himself on the bomb as propaganda, at the end of the day, they could have got the hell out of there! I am not trying to say that this is not a sad story!
EGPHIf I may join the song propaganda train!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szUILWiclYM – Patriot Game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6BWiTVEhcM – 90 miles to Dublin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__aVslJq-Vw – People’s own MP (and my phone’s ringtone ill have you know ;))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouEXxK8VLhM – Joe McDonnell (warning this is very long but the lyrics are VERY powerful!)
UPDATE: After listening to “Soldier”, very upsetting but is this not more of a suicide than an ‘act of bravery’? Just a thought!
EGPHIf I may join the song propaganda train!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szUILWiclYM – Patriot Game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6BWiTVEhcM – 90 miles to Dublin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__aVslJq-Vw – People’s own MP (and my phone’s ringtone ill have you know ;))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouEXxK8VLhM – Joe McDonnell (warning this is very long but the lyrics are VERY powerful!)
UPDATE: After listening to “Soldier”, very upsetting but is this not more of a suicide than an ‘act of bravery’? Just a thought!
EGPHOMG! All the relevant posts have moved to this thread, these mods are magicians!!
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