Lies, damn lies & statistics

Statistically the rear-gunner was least likely to survive from a shot-down Lancaster; as has already been said (until the advent of later turret designs) there wasn’t room for the rear-gunner to wear, or even store, his parachute in the turret.

Somewhere on my bookshelves, groaning with volumes on this topic as so many of us here also have 😎 … I have a reference that states otherwise.

I’m not sure but “think” it’s either Middlebrook’s BCWD or “the Other Battle” by Peter Hinchcliffe.

Anyway, IIRC that source states that it was the pilot who was least likely to survive, both in point of fact (i.e. statistically) and logically because he typically tried the hold the aircraft as best as he could to allow others a chance to escape. As we all know, we’re talking seconds to maybe a minute and a half or so here.

Bear in mind also we’re talking Bomber Command, over the length of the war, i.e. for the most part night sorties. Early on, when raids were carried out in daylight, the rear gunner was indeed most likely to die, but not because he found it too hard to exit, rather o/a being shot dead in a fighter attack.

I will see if I can dig out the reference.

Creaking Door … what is your reference here? I do note you state “a shot down Lancaster” whereas I’m talking Bomber Command.

regards Don

The bomber bombs the bombed

I’d be interested to know what ‘Smith’ thinks of it as well, his Bomber Command connection being similar to Swift’s.

Regards,

Yes … I’d be interested in what I think of it too! But I haven’t read it, wasn’t even aware of its existence. I’ll see if I can track down a copy (a quick search shows me it’s not in the library here).

Just a handful of semi-random comments, based on Kev’s and Brett’s reviews.

It is suggested but not made explicit that Swift is a poet, or anyway he’s undoubtedly of a poetic disposition, and therefore well disposed to word play:
– He talks of the bombed and therefore naturally of the bombers (those giving and receiving with respect to the verb “bomb” … for example “the driver drove the driven”).
– My grandfather is a myth too! “a fiction or half-truth, especially one that forms part of an ideology” He served at Anzac Cove and in France. I know that heroic story. I also know a bit about his mundane reality from his army records … for the most part he went here, went there, mucked about, did this, did that, got disciplined, etc. I’ve read many accounts of war referencing predominant boredom interspersed with brief moments of action (and I’m not slighting anyone in this context).
– To suggest that we (our airmen) have the moral fortitude to stop after 100,000 sorties or whatever is abject nonsense … you’re absolutely right that Swift has missed the point. Reflect on the very opposite in terms of LMF!

Anyway, I haven’t read it (yet) but will do so.

I will also pull Sebald’s On the Natural History of Destruction off my shelf and flick back through that. IIRC he references a lot of contemporary German (the “bombed”) accounts and I think I recall some of that being poetry.

Interesting Kev, all the best, Don

YouTube link

I thought that’s what was on You Tube? Certainly looks like it.

Could you post a link please James?

TaVM, D

PAN?

Just listened to these excerpts between QF74 and the Control Tower. We hear the pilot declare a PAN. What is a PAN?

TaVM

Perfectly reasonable team behaviour IMHO

Must be you! I was thinking exactly the opposite. 😉