I should have added, for the record … my grandfather served at both Gallipoli and the Somme, being invalided home from France having suffered in a gas attack. He lost all his hair! I’ve lost most of mine too – hmmm.

Andy, do I recall you saying you’d toured the Somme or similar with Martin Middlebrook? I must and will make the pilgrimage one day.

If the nightfighter was guided to it’s target by an onboard radar operator,would the radar operator be classed as an ace or the crew recognised as an “ace” crew.If it was’nt for his imput the pilot would’nt have made the 5 kills.

I have Peter Hinchcliffe’s “The other Battle” on my bookshelves. A great book about the night airwar over Europe in WWII. In it he comments on this issue, and although I’m not quoting I think I’m right in saying that it was the nightfighter crew who were recognised officially. However, it tended to be so-and-so and his Funker who became idolised by the public (ie. the pilot became the hero with his faithful sidekick – think Batman and Robin). The top scoring night fighter pilots were no less well known in WWII Germany than pop stars these days.

And bear in mind that there were always three parties to every kill – the ground controller was the key guide – he (typically he) got the fighter into the position where it had an opportunity to complete the interception. Hinchcliffe makes much of this point and the strong relationships that built up between the night fighter crews and their controllers – they were very much a team.

Can’t comment re. RAF or USAAF..

The Case of Old Bentley Number One

HUBBARD vs. MIDDLEBRIDGE SCIMITAR LIMITED

IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE
QUEEN’S BENCH DIVISION
Royal Courts of Justice, London.
No. 90/MJ/2474 – 27th July 1990
Before: MR. JUSTICE OTTON

http://www.gomog.com/articles/no1judgement.html

Fascinating – everyone here make sure you read it.

Very quick precis – racing cars change all the time, new this, new that … the car you buy many years later can be both the “authentic” car and not be “original” at all.

Oh, and if the rules applied in this judgement applied to the vast majority of the aircraft we’re referring to here – they would not be authentic or original. They’d be “resurrections” or “reconstructions” at best – probably just new build copies frankly. All those variations have no provenance it seems.

Made me think about what I want to see in a historic aircraft. But first a clear statement of my position. I have no vested interest. I am not the owner or likely owner of a million dollar/pound plus “warbird” or other historic aircraft, I’m not a restorer or museum conservator, I’m just your everyday guy with an amateur historian’s interest in the airwar of WWII and I love aeroplanes in all shapes and forms – and I love fast things (horse racing, boring too slow – F1 and MotoGP, now you’re talking). Bring all those things together and you can see why I like warbirds, WWII and later.

So I go to an airshow – a Corsair flies over my head. Wicked! Do I give a toss if it’s 10 or 20 or 50% Joe so-and-so’s “original” aircraft from such and such a place and time. NO. I just love the thing.

So if what I see is a “copy” AND I could get to go to a museum somehere and see the real thing. That would make me doubly happy. I’m with you John.

The boat attacks were later, and extemporare.

Lovely word that ~ extemporare.

Interesting, but odd, Dave. The first aircarft sounds like a B17 (glazed bullet shaped nose, 3 machine guns) and given that and next raid seem to be daylight in formation I thought that somehow or other this guy (a Kiwi?) was with the Mighty Eighth. And near the end he mentions British, American and German aircraft all together. This could be say 1943 (Memphis Belle era) raids escorted by Spits.

Tbirdman – about a week ago I picked up the latest Airpower mag which has an interesting article on the development of the 262 – I’ll have a flick through it for you.

As to TNZ’s comment – found this googling …

After the war, Me-262s that had fallen into Allied hands were evaluated by flight test groups, one of the best-known being a USAAF team named “Watson’s Whizzers”, led by Colonel Harold E. “Hal” Watson of USAAF Air Technical Intelligence. Watson’s pilots and ground crew managed to find intact Me-262s at the Lechfeld airstrip in Bavaria, and were assisted in their test flights by German ground crews familiar with the aircraft and even two English-speaking German test pilots, Ludwig Hofmann and Karl Baur.

The Me-262s were then shipped to the US on the Royal Navy “jeep” carrier HMS REAPER for further evaluation at Wright Field in Ohio. The tests there included a competitive fly-off against a Lockheed P-80 Shooting Star jet fighter that demonstrated the general superiority of the Me-262.

Airpower has a photo of an aircraft that was specially set-up for flight testing, including streamlining and a high-gloss finish. Might be the same one, I don’t know.

Well that didn’t work did it?

Dave, I had a moment to chill out in front of the PC and did a quick skim of the forum and here you are asking a question I’m very interested in (but by NO means an expert). The quick answer is that most of the Luftwaffe records were destroyed near the end of the war. But lots of people are trying to piece together the answers nowadays. Two websites you’ll be interested in are:
http://pub157.ezboard.com/bluftwaffeexperten71774
http://www.luftwaffe.be/

The first one (the Experten Board) is fascinating … that strange aircraft Flood and others are trying to figure out is discussed there along with all sorts of good stuff. There is a fantastic claims list (Tony Wood’s – look in Allied Losses under Pilots and Aircrew for the link) it’s a great resource – but of course the inverse of what you’re looking for.

I think if you post your (specific combat) queries there you may find they get answered.

cheers D