I know the pictures you are talking about but I don’t see any problem. I’ll get into them later on today and will see if I can figure out what Gardiner is on about. There is a slight snag though. According to the H&W list both pictures are of the Olympic. H1515 was taken in April 1911 and H1825 in December 1912. By that time the Titanic was on the bottom of the Atlantic. If Mr. Gardiner had done his homework he would have known. Oh sorry, it’s a conspiracy, isn’t it? So the files must be forged! :diablo: However, if you check to two following photos H1826 and H1827 (Olympic) you will see that the bridge wing cabs haven’t been moved further outboard. This alteration took place on Olympic after the Titanic disaster. So if the ship on the ocean floor is the Olympic, it should have bridge wings that were flush with the surface of the hull, correct?

It is a conspiracy! All we need is a murder an a kidnapping thrown in and we have a full set! (given that it was supposedly Olympic, on fire, and with a broken keel.) Conveniently for the conspiracy theorist types the bridge wings didn’t survive did they? Most of the bridge was wiped out.

You’re being sarcastic. The bell that was found is not the bell people expected to see. Only ONE bell had the name of the ship on it. Apparently they didn’t find that one. Like I said the size of the bell doesn’t match any bell in the rigging plan

Admittedly that was a bit sarcastic, though I wouldn’ really expect anything down there in that area not to come off Titanic. Unless it came from the missing sub, or the mystery ship which she supposedly collided with (The mor I read Mr Gardiners book, the more I think it has more paralllels with Clive Cusslers novels than reality)

The White Swan Hotel has the First Class Lounge and parts of the Grand Staircase. Whenever you’re in that area check it out, the lounge is huge and very impressive.

I’ve put it on my ever growing to do list! A couple of friends suggested I go have a look a while back.

They are! You’ve never seen the film have you? Send me your address via pm and I’ll see if I can get a copy out to you. Gimmi a few weeks though.

Peter

To be honest, it was ages ago when I watched it. No need to go copying it, its on the internet. I’ll have a look again. (Just to check.. I am right in thinking it’s the one with Telly Savalas hosting it, yes??)

I think I’m going to leave this discussion here anyway, as I’m sick of Mr Gardiners book now, and his arguments get weirder and weaker throughout the book. I’ve chucked it in the recycle pile and dug out my copy of Dr Ballards “Discovery of the Titanic”, as it’s a better read.

Just a question as you’re obviously into Titanic in a big way, did they ever find out what happened to the first memorial plaque Dr Ballard laid? Someone told me he had to put another down on his last trip as the original had gone.

Regards,

Ric

Sorry mate! The shell plating at the bow on both ships was perfectly identical! Nothing was changed. Show me the pics and I’ll explain.

Not my pics, so I can’t really post them. However the references if you want to go look for them are: Harland and Wolff/Ulster Folk and Transport Museum H1515 and H1825. You’re looking at the bottom of the hawse hole on the front of the bow. One shot shows it standing proud at its base with a visible gap, one doesn’t.

Go for it with the explanation, I’d love to hear it. Short of a shedload of lead loading, or some quick bodgery with fibreglass, its different. Maybe it was done to improve the aerodynamics, in order to wring that last half a knot out of her.

Yes, well so would I as far as the bells are concerned. However, which ship’s bell IS the main ship’s bell? The one on the bridge front perhaps? They must have picked up some other bell then. Surprisingly the size of the bell that was retrieved doesn’t match any of the bells shown in the Harland & Wolff Yard No. 401 (Titanic) Rigging Plan. Hmmm… So who’s bell did they find? Perhaps it came from someone’s steamer trunk? Besides, nothing else had the name stamped on it (apart from lifeboat nameplates but these didn’t sink). Instead you would find the number 401 on a lot of items. However, the number 400 was found on a large number of items discovered in the past years in the UK. For instance nearly everything that came from the Akzo Noble Paint Factory in Haltwhistle (you might want to google this).
And also in the White Swan Hotel in Alnwick (google too) then perhaps you can explain why Gardiner was right.

That is exactly the video I mean. It is known as the “Port side of the Wreck” video and is of incredible quality. The “A”; “N”; “I”; “C” is perfectly clear.

Right, because finding a ships bell in the middle of a shipwreck was so unlikely wasn’t it? I take your point about everything found in the UK with 400 on. The fact that a hell of a lot of Olympic is scattered around the country is probably the most damning evidence to shut sceptics up. As for the hotel, thats the one fitted out with a lot of the panelling from Olympic, I don’t need to google it.

As for the painted on name, how come in the video the letters aren’t incised into the plate?

No, you do!

Seriously? A “No, you” argument? Are you five years old?!

Thats the second time you’ve taken part of something I’ve said literally. I didn’t mean you personally. It could be Bob Ballard, the Mir submersible teams, even a friendly passing mermaid. The engines stand proud of the rest of the stern they’re that big, yet nobody bothered to look for a makers plate? When they can happily go find a painted on name on the bow?

Your turn!
🙂

Ric

How the pattern what?

Sorry, it should have read how the pattern changes. Photos of Olympic before and after the sinking of Titanic show a different pattern of plates on the bow. A pattern which it seems to have swapped with Titanic.

There were at least THREE exterior bells – one behind the crows-nest; one at the foot of the forward mast and one attached to the bridge front. Do you really believe that they all had the name Titanic on them?

I would expect the main ships bell to, as most other ships seem to have it. Everything else seemed to have the name stamped on it, so why not?

Complete BS! I have video footage here in which the name Titanic can be clearly made out on the portside bow. If Mr. Gardiner doesn’t believe me, he is very welcome to come over here and have a look.

BS… strong stuff! Is that the video from the French expedition that found a name when nobody else did, that has since disappeared so nobody can find it again?

I don’t dismiss anything until proven. Get a serial number off the engines or one of the boilers, then I’ll make my mind up. For now, all I believe is that a ship that at the time was called Titanic sank.

The idea of the Titanic/Olympic identity swap was first floated (pardon the awful pun) several years ago, but it has apparently since been disproved by items recovered from the Titanic wreck which bear marks confirming she was indeed Titanic, and a vsual inspection of certain parts still on the seabed. I think the clincher was something to do with Titanic’s propellors being slightly different to Olympic’s.

I’ve got Robin Gardiners book (Titanic – The Ship That Never Sank) on the go at the moment and it does make interesting reading. There’s a lot of supposition in there but there are some puzzles. The bits that intrigue me most are:

-how the pattern of plating around the bow on photos of the Olympic
-how the ships bell brought up from Titanic doesn’t have the ships name on
-the only visble letters left of a name on the wreck are “o” and “p”

:confused:

A B-29 appears in Back to the Future – I kid you not…

Revell-Monogram model kits don’t count!

I have to admit, I do like the Anson.

Jon mentioned the Hooton Park Anson (G-AGPG), wasn’t that the one with the funny nose that was the Ekco electronics one?

What’s the status of that aircraft now?

Regards,

Ric

So you did. How did I miss that?

That’ll be what these glasses are for then..