You’re probably right. I’d probably want to rend them, limb from limb.

And for that very reason, I’d the least fit person to decide the guilt of the accused and, if such guilt was established, the nature of their punishment.

That’s how justice works. It has to be impartial and consistent – and that’s the bit that you don’t seem to understand.

Yes I do. Totally.
I would not be the Judgement. I keep saying it. The proven system is the Judge. I would just carry it out…very especially if it were my kith-n-kin.

CU Monday.

A perfect example of how counterproductive torture can be, especially since during the troubles in Northern Ireland it was easier for those to excuse acts of terrorism by linking the behaviour of, for example, the Parachute Regiment, with the brutal behaviour of an earlier era.

While there are always going to be extremists the worst thing you can do, to my mind anyway, is to give them something to rouse the general population about…..like torture.

I may also surprise many to know that British Intelligence didn’t believe in torturing captured German spies, some were executed (which may count as a form of torture), but the British maintained an excellent record of counterespionage and ‘turned’ many, many enemy spies.

All good points.
..but we equally failed on turning “Spies” and ended up getting stabbed in the back.

Anyway, I’m on the school run now. Then I’m off to catch a ferry to watch some music. No doubt this thread will be dead by Monday, and we’ll be back on slightly less controversial subjects.
Great debate.
I was not trying to convert anyone (As one poster suggested) but stating my views on a subject which naws at the conscience of us all.

Justice does not take place in prime time on network TV for the vicarious gratification of the violently-inclined.

Justice is not delivered by self-appointed vigilantes.

There is a differerence between justice and vengeance.

If you can’t (or won’t) see that difference then it is you that has the problem, not the rest of us.

(1) Not yet it doesn’t.
(2) Who said self appointed? The job would have thousands of applicants! Furthermore, I stated quite clearly on more than one occasion that my justice was Court/12-0 Jury etc.
(3) But you assume vengeance is bad. Justice, in the cases I state can only be carried out by vengeance.
(4) Of course I see the difference, as stated in (3).

If somebody hurt your kids (Sorry, assume you have them) would you want justice as of today or vengeance using the justice system as proof? I’m sure you’ll stump for the latter.

Scott.

My comment was neither below the belt nor should it be seen as hurtful. You of all people should know that the slippery slope advocated by old shape, and I believe by yourself, has in the past led to the introduction of eugenics. It was even advocated in this Country.

If you have such a strong desire to kill criminals and murderers how about joining the Royal Scots who are sure to be preparing for a return to Afghanistan? Eradicating the world of the Taliban would allow you to satisfy your desire. You could apply to join them. Casualties are high so reinforcements are needed or is it only palatable to kill people who are handcuffed and unarmed rather than facing you with an AK47?

Regards,

kev35

Who’s Scott?

As for eugenics, that’s a different thread. It was a top-of-the-pops idea in the 1900 – 1930ish period. It wasn’t just Hitler wanting the master race, as you stated, the UK had certain ideas too….especially as we actually ruled the world at the time.
But, Pikey will always breed with Chav and have more of the same. Hopefully (Relatively speaking), their only inborne trait is to sponge off the DHSS etc. Stopping social payments will sort that one out and a form of indirect eugenics will take place.

I have a feeling that may play straight into the hands of some serial killer in today’s celebrity culture…

…think of it…..guaranteed live coverage of your execution on live national television!

Yes, the martyrdom angle is an annoying presence.

Is that yes you would advocate a totalitarian state and the introduction of eugenics? I suspect it is, though you would suggest you were referring to the incidence of burglary.

Regards,

kev35

It was at the very last comment in your post. That I wouldn’t do the task myself.

I’m afraid I didn’t phrase the question clearly,no doubt due to my marshmallow of a female brain – I meant torture as a means of extracting information.As it is I seem to have looked under a stone I should have left undisturbed.However,I’m pleased that ( so far ) the thread has been left to run,whatever the views being expressed are .

Well, it has always gone on. I have pals in the Para. which certainly “tortured” IRA suspects in the 70’s, but only in a “beat-up until they talk” kind of way. I’m sure the more senior agencies used other methods. It certainly went on from all sides in WW2.
As for waterboarding torture to extract info. on drugs, it seems a bit extreme for just “Drugs”. Maybe we don’t know the whole story.

As I said… you’re looking for entertainment.

No, justice. The entertainment factor can be discussed, maybe I’d tone it down and not make it entertainment…just televise it. Hanging is a 3 minute process, the pill in bucket is about the same. Firing squad would be acceptable. But I totally believe that these sorts should be killed, and I’m sure most people agree. It’s just the commercial venture side of it which is disturbing some people.

If somebody harmed any of my children, they would die at my hand. Most fathers would say this. For a father to suggest forgiveness to the person who deliberately took the life of his child is actually totally beyond any state of mind I could ever go near. There’s nothing gracious about that attitude, and it certainly can’t help the healing process knowing that your child is dead but their killer is warm/fed in a jail.