Saturday 21st March, and I decided to see actually just IS happening at RAF Hendon. It was a nice sunny day, and there was a lot of visitors there. I must report that some aspects are MUCH better than I had previously seen and was expecting.
The infrastructure was better than the last time I visited. The outside of the original building looks as if the paintwork has been recently patched over to conceal the worse effects of weathering. This gives a ‘bright-white – dirty white’ effect.
For a change, there was very few traffic cones in evidence, the only ones being in a small area close to the Battle of Britain Hall.
My arrival – and my age – dictated a somewhat urgent trip to the Mens Room which brought forth the first of many ‘out of order/cannot go there/do not enter/closed’ signs
From the entrance, Milestones of Flight, is light, bright and airy. I will not comment on the ‘rights and wrongs’ of the aircraft displayed therein, but I will say this, a;; the visitors seemed facinated by what they were looking at.
The walk down the ‘tunnel’ takes the visitor to the sygian gloom of the Bomber Command building. I remember this from when it first opened, and it was not bright then, but today there were areas that really were very dark. It was not helped that quite a number of areas were roped off – one for building and floor work to happen, and one that contained a large number of gilded chairs. Other ropes off areas contained builders equipment, unfinished display woodwork, and piles of aircraft parts including a rudder and a chin radiator. Apart from ‘Keep out’ and ‘Do Not Enter’ signs there were no explanations as to what was going on, and the staff did not appear to want to make eye contact to offer any verbal suggestions. The carpeting was patterned throughout with a combination of blue and black Duct Tape covering rips and regimented lights of bright red buckets each with a small amount of water in the bottom.
The Main Hall was certainly brighter, quite full of children of an age I would estimate between 8 and 16, many of which appeared to be Scouts. There were a few adults supervising them, and again a few RAFM staff, none of which seemed to want to make eye contact I looked at then they turned their head away. The cafe area – which you had to walk through to get to a number of helicopter exhibits – was full, again mainly of quite vocal children.
Walking around the exhibits towards the main stairs towards the upper galleries, the upper surfaces of the lower wings of the Stranraer were very dusty, with what appeared to be either dead flies or bird droppings there.
The upper galleries of the main hall was closed, with a custom-made sign announcing ‘We regret the Upper Galleries are closed today’. . I eventually found someone to ask why – and was told they were short-staffed.
Making my way towards the exit – as was, and is now the Conference Centre – I discovered that the ‘RAF Today’ area was closed, with a sign that said ‘Private Function’ blocking the way. There did not appear to be anyone around, and all the lights were off in this area.
I decided to make my way over to the Grahame-White building which had signs to say it was open – indeed it was. The first bit of good news in the day. This took me past Building 52, signed up as SCAF – Supply Control & Accounting Flight. Here the visitor could see severe fennestraion of the windows, broken panes of glass, and panes with plywood filling in the holes. No doubt it will be said that these buildings are not part of the RAFM, but they form part of the site, and need to be considered.
The Grahame-White building was open, with just me and a RAFM Staff Member in there – he scowled at me when I entered, did not reply to my ‘good afternoon’ and appeared almost pleased when I left has he headed back to sit down.
The came the Battle of Britain Hall. I was watched intently by another member of the RAFM staff as I walked in – and discovered the second surprise – the Sunderland Interior was OPEN!!!! But disapointment rapidly set in, for about 80% of the entire BoB Collection was ‘out of bounds’ behind the barriers and inevitable signs. I found a member of staff to ask what was going on to be told that despite the fact that no internal work had been done, a crew had been working on the roof during the week to weatherproof it and that – even though they were not working at ALL on a saturday, due to Health and Safety reasons, no one was allowed beyond that point.
I tried to take pictures – but the low light levels were just too bad, even for my Nikon.
On my way out, I spoke with another member of RAFM Staff, who was just returning from his lunch that I was surprised to see the Sunderland interior and Grahame-White Hangar open – he said, and I quote: ‘Yeah, someone complained I think”.
I walked outside the site to check on the Grahame-White Gates – they have been roughly re-painted, but the corrosion is already breaking through again, likewise much of the concrete and steel perimeter fencing is severely discoloured by what I think is deposits from the nearby trees, which could be Plane trees, which I know leave a nasty, sticky substance over everything.
So, there you have it – the real state of RAF Museum Hendon – in some respects it’s not as bad as we thought, in others, I think it is way worse, but now I have evidence to take it further – and I intend to.
I think that nothing ventured nothing gained, we can all sit here on a forum and view our opinions or as has been said we try to make a differance but as Kev said we should try to get BOTH aviation magazines involved as that would have more effect than a bunch of ‘enthusiasts’ approaching the RAFM as a bad word in any press normally has a positive effect (sometimes) it just has to be handled correctly (which again Kev seems to be then man).
All i can say is maybe it is time to stop talking and take some action, if there is anything i can do dont hesitate to shout otherwise we risk (at one time) the best aviation museum in the UK decending further and further into the duldrums.
One question do the mods have any contact with the hierachy at Flypast and make contact with them about this?
curlyboy
I have said it before in this thread, as much as I can understand peoples thoughts about trying to get both magazines on the case, I do not think that will happen for commercial reasons – watch the banners at the top of the index page here for example…. it regularly runs RAFM adverts, as does Aeroplane. This is just my views I know, but I cannot see either editor – or their respective commercial departments – running any piece that is likely to appear derogatory towards not only one of their major advertisers, but also one who is in a position to supply material that they can flag up as an ‘Exclusive’. It is my view that we will NOT get any support from Flypast, Aeroplane Monthly or any of the other aviation magazines for the simple reason that they have a vested, commerical interest in keeping a good relationship with the curator/Director of the museum.
Moggy’s comment with no offence meant also I think is quite telling “Whilst we’d all love to be invited to the Friday Champagne cocktails at Key Towers to hobnob with the A-list glitterati, we are just humble posters like yourselves who blundered into moderating.” – I suspect we’re on our own with this.
All of that said, remember we do not know who has read, or is monitoring this thread – we may be having some affect already for all we know! (hey, sometimes I can be a cynical optimist!)
I also feel that if we DO try to get anything moving, we will not get far – but nevertheless, I think we need, no HAVE to try – be it to Fopp, or higher. Personally, I would take it to trustees, CAS, MoD or Westminster – I’m one of the outsiders anyways, and GMS Enterprises have discovered lots of ‘ways around’ the obstacles those who see themselves as ‘The Establishment’ try and put in place. I doubt very much if the other Nationals wont help, neither will BAPC, even if lots agree – they are all scared of rocking the boat.
My view is that we should be realistic and only try what is achievable. – the five points already listed – there cannot be any personal attacks, despite what we may think. Cool, calm collected and professional and then try for a meet with the Director first. if no success there we move up the food chain.
I’ve heard lots of opinion and subjective comment but only Graham Simons has shown me any proof. I’m sure Graham has researched the subject and I may have missed it in his posts but I would like to know who owns those additional buildings near the RAFM site.
I haven’t been to the RAFM for around 5 years and it looked fine then; so I would really like to see some examples of what’s been claimed in this thread.
As far as I am aware, the MoD land was sold off to a Property Developer called St George (I cannot be bothered to do a Land Registry search to discover the actual owner). I sought and gained permission from the Site Manager there to access the site, to discover the ‘remains’ of two buildings there – The Control Tower and complex of structures loosely ‘connected’ into what used reach to street-side to form the Main Office Entrance to the Grahame-White site. Both had been wire-screened off within the site to prevent access, and frankly, from their appearance, I did not want to go into them!
According to the Site Manager, both structures had some kind of preservation orders on them, both had been offered to the RAF Museum and both had been turned down.
As to the poor standards of infrastructure to the RAF Museum site, look closely at the ‘Gates’ picture – apart from the peeling paintwork showing a pale blue underneath there is severe fenestration corrosion showing red-rust under the name titling and what remains of the locking mechanism at the join, both in the middle and bottom of the two gates. For this kind of corrosion to show up in a photograph, it must have been well-established for some considerable time – indicative of an ongoing lock of care for an historic artifact, for I believe that these are the ORIGINAL gates, incorporated into the perimeter in the early 1970s. The look as if they have not been cared for since.
The concrete posts and steel fencing erected then also show clear signs of severe weathering – and remember, this is directly by the Main Entrance Gate the first thing a visitor comes across!
This same form of severe weathering can be seen all over the facia and facade of the Main structure surround the Belfast-truss hangars. What used to be gleaming white now looks grubby and unkempt. There is also what appears to be fungal growth over parts of the BoB Hall.
Go deeper into the site and apart from the poor condition of the launches which have been left outside for years since they first arrived, a visitor comes across Building 52, which used to be the old wartime workshops and later was used for Exhibition Flight buildings. Here some of the walls still carry traces of their wartime camouflage – but also green fungal growth covering their red bricks, with broken window-glass, peeling paint on windowframes and that common complaint that affects many RAF buildings, the original Crittall windows that were installed painted, but not corrosion-proofed by glavanising. Thus they have suffered severe fenestration.
All of these points individually are very minor but when put together as a whole, build up to create an image of unkempt neglect.
Layer on top of that, the unwelcoming attitude of many of the Wardens, the gallery and building closures with little-to-no information available to the enquiring visitor, the apparently poor lighting and even the area it sits in now – it is not surpising that a whole raft of valid views and and strong opinions have been expressed in the manner in which they have been here.
I for one am proud of the RAF Museum collection – both at Hendon and Cosford – but I am NOT proud of how the visitor is greeted and what meets them when they get to Hendon. It is this I for one am trying to fix.
My point is – as I have said before – how should these views and the clear evidence be acted upon? Individually? Collectively? or not at all? Should (or would) Flypast do anything?
Gentlemen
I feel we are getting somewhat sidetracked here by a certain amount of close-to-the-bone ‘attacks’ brought about by strong feelings and harking back to past events that cannot no be changed no matter how ‘questionable’ the decisions that were at the time. Nor, I feel is it the time and place for us to decide the ‘rights or wrongs’ on how the younger generation are attracted in to what interests us.
The lighting levels (or lack of them) seems to be being adressed in the near future according to the RAFM’s own website as was mentioned much earlier in this discussion.
The way I see it is that we need to sound as positive as possible and to focus on the present and future by concentrating on the original points made:
1. Closures of large parts of the RAF Museum complex for no real apparent reason – viz the Claude Grahame-White building and the galleries.
Why does this seem to have been going on for some considerable amount of time, and are there any plans in hand for both the galleries and hangar to be re-opened on a regular basis that visitors from around the world can build their travel plans around with a reasonable degree of success in seeing what they would like to see when they arrive.
Would also this regular timetable be passed on to those answering telephone or direct in-person enquiries in a manner other than ‘Well, I’m not sure, but there is plenty more for you to see’. And yes, that has happened on more than one occasion to my own personal, direct knowledge.
2. The poor condition of the sites infrastructure – in particular what greets the first-time visitor on their arrival.
We need to ask if there in any regular maintenance scheduled for such things as external painting and decorating – also, why are there so many traffic cones and barriers around?
3. Is there a long-term display policy?
We also need to seek information if there is a formal long-term display policy in place regarding the display of aircraft and artifacts in a similar manner to whatever acquisions policy they may have.
4. What informational training is given to any wardens or guides?
I would like to know the answer to this to discover if the staff are able to answer any reasonable, general questions members of the public may have.
These points need bringing to the attention of Mike Fopp as Director of the Museum, not as an attack on his abilities or management style, but as sincere, genuine concerns from a group of people who care about how what is one of the premier aeronautical collections in the country is perceived by public from all over the world.
I’ll go along with a letter campaign, but I for one would be more than happy with a face-to-face meeting.
OK… so now we’ve debated, and clearly something needs doing – what ARE we going to do?… leave it as just complaining here, or take any further action?
I’m open to suggestions
I suspect, unlike many of you; I’ve met Michael Fopp and Jack Bruce. I found them both personable, professional and highly experienced gentlemen.
Oh well that’s ok then – all is right with the world Mr Gaff.
Did you actually READ my posts – or look at my pictures?
I think I better lay out some facts here – I used to be a member of the Friends of the RAFM, indeed I have given a number of lectures to said members in the theatre there – I’ve done volunteer work at Cardington, I’ve worked on the Walrus, the Southampton and the DH9A. A R-R Merlin I helped restore is still, as far as I know on display in the BoB Hall. So please do not lecture me about what I should or should not do or should or should not join!
I cannot and will not speak for other forumites who have posted here, but all MY comments have been aimed at the clear and ongoing downward spiral of decay and neglect that hangs over of the site infrastructure and a truly shambolic policy of facilities closure within the site on what appears to be a totally random basis.
The site is clearly lacking care and attention – anyone with only half an eye open can see that – peeling paint, corrosion, water-staining… and that is just the Entrance to the site. You say you first visited in 1974 – I suggest you go and have a look now from your position half-way around the world and see just WHY this thread is called ‘faded glory’ – then perhaps you can tell me how is it possible to be proud of the sights I list above which currently greet the first-time visitor?
Go deeper in and you see cones and barriers everywhere closing off tranches of the car-park – then inside you discover that galleries are closed off for no apparent reason – then we come to the Grahame-White hangar.
That building MUST have spent more time closed than open – and for why?
The usual ‘excuse’ given is ‘staffing problems’ but that’s a load of garbage – the UK is the most CCTV’d country in the world – indeed, the Shuttleworth Collection have for a number of years quite happily and successfully used CCTV to police their entire site both on flying and non-flying days. Has not the management of the RAFM heard of that and how it can be applied?
Yes, I am being critical – but I am not, as you say ‘venting my spleen’. Sometimes it needs to be cruel to be kind and someone needs to bring failures into the light – this thread clearly shows that a number of people are concerned as to what has been and is happening. So people seem to be attacking Mike Fopp – and just who do you suggest any critical comments are made to – the lady serving in the cafe?
Mike is the Director – as someone once said – the buck stops here.
I am being critical because I care for the work that has been done in the past – and I can see how the decline needs stopping or we WILL lose what is one of the world’s great aeronautical museums!
Oh dear , I was so looking forward to my first visit next month , I have 9 days in the UK . Hendon , Bruntingthorpe , Duxford , Old Warden , and some rellies wedding in Cumbria .
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do NOT let our comments here put you off. Despite of all that has been said Hendon is WELL worth the visit – the contents are incedible! I would also say try and squeeze a trip to Salisbury Hall into your trip – see other threads elsewhere – it’s well worth a look at how things SHOULD be done!!
Why doesn’t Flypast write an article on Hendon and discuss these observations with the management.
I doubt it will happen – too many magazine editors don’t want to upset the management of these places for fear of losing their nice little exclusives or any paid advertising that might come their way – heaven forfend anything even remotely controversial get written about any of the Nationals!
Nice pics Graham, really sad to think of such historic buildings being so under valued.
The whole museum issue is a difficult one, I know non aircrafty types that much prefer the new layout to before, but from the enthusiast point of view the newer layout is awful.
Am I the only one that thinks the decline (in our eyes) started with the Beverley scrapping?
I don’t have a problem with the layout – that’s all down to personal taste IMO. The problem has been for many years in the mentality of those running the place.
And yeah, the decline started when no-one cared for the Bev.
Three more pics from the same shoot
Only changes I would make –
1 – clean-up and re-furb the buildings.
2 – make sure they had knowledgable, friendly and informative staff
3 – make sure ALL the buildings, levels and annexes were OPEN during museum opening hours.
4 – Display aircraft and equipment that are pertinent to RFC/RAF history
5 – Establish a completely separate Civilian Aviation Museum
When we did our ‘Airfield Focus’ on Hendon a couple of years ago I took the day down there to do some ‘then and now’ pictures and also take a few to promote the Museum – a pointless exercise in some respects, for they refuse to stock any of our titles because of a: we refuse to give them the discount they demand and b: they say there is no real interest in what we produce – but that’s another story.
I managed to get access to what was left of the old RAF site and managed to talk with the developer’s site Manager about the remaining few Grahame White structures, including some of the stone carvings. He told me that the RAFM were not really interested and had I seen the state of what they hand already?
Sure enough, the Grahame-White Aviation Co gates were in poor repair with peeling paint and corrosion everywhere, as were most of the buildings, including water-marks over the main entrance area. The whole place had an atmosphere of shabby neglect – which is so sad because of the brilliant quality and content of what lies inside. I know that many of the pioneers – people like Jack Bruce, Bill Sayers, John Chapman, John Wadham et al all put so much effort and ‘spirit’ into the place – it seems such a shame and frankly, an sad reflection on their efforts and the Royal Air Force!
The BoB Hall was John Tanner’s knighthood, and I suspect that most subsiquent decisions have been made there with that kind of ‘reward’ in mind. The mentality of the place can be best described by the title of those who patrol the building – they are not called ‘Wardens’ for nothing!
Congratulations to all concerned!!! Something must’ve been in the air Bruce – yesterday I went through Amiens, and took these couple of pics of the jail that Percy Pickard and 140 Wing 2TAF attacked back in February 1944.
Can you IMAGINE some of the comments from the crew chiefs?????
Hi David
That Rapide pic came my way as part of my ongoing collection of DH multis. I have no idea as to it’s history, other than it appears to be contemporary. As to scanning historical images – that’s a an ongoing task we have. We have ‘saved’ stuff from car-boot sales, dustbins, dumpsters and even once from a garden incinerator about 5 minutes before the guy’s wife lit the match!(he had not long passed away, and she was ‘clearing out’).
Currently here we run a pair of 5 Terrabyte hard-drives with auto back-up,but as we scan everything at a minimum of 600 dpi, that’s not going to last long. Unfortunately no-one knows the long term implications or lifespan of e-storage. We have a policy of ‘rolling over’ and re-activating our CD library every five years.
A few years ago myself and David Lee of BAPC organised ‘G-DASH’, a one-day conference at Cosford for discussing preserving the civil side of things, and electronic image storage played a part of the discussions. Lots of well-intentioned high-and-mighty talk occurred, but unfortunately the twin-terrors of ‘Copyright’ and ‘Reprographic’ rights raised their heads and that frightened everyone off. In the end nothing really long-term came from the G-DASH conference, because more seem interested in preserving military than civil.
We at GMS Enterprises would love to see more of a ‘Historic Image Library’ created somehow, but the cost would be high and legal implications difficult to overcome. And that is without attempting to tackle the collector mentality of ‘I’ve got, you’re not having’! Yes, we collect, but we also use and we also try and share where we can – as shown by the pics we post in this forum. We do try and trace copyright owners, but often that is not possible, (indeed, we are trying to sort out one example as I write this) so in all our publications we print this:
The author and publisher are indebted to many people and organisations for providing photographs for this history, but in some cases it has not been possible to identify the original photographer and so credits are given in the appropriate places to the immediate supplier. If any of the pictures have not been correctly credited, the author and publisher apologise.