LawstudI dont think the Atlantique will be purchased by any Navy from now on….
German Nay is retiring them as is Pak Navy , why did the IN give uop on the P-3s? I thought they were entusiastic about them at one point?
French Navy offers some ATL II, and there is a ATL III Project by Dassault, actually there are some modern ATLs around.
German Navy -and I guess Pakistan´s, too-have ATL I´s. The german planes entered service in the mid 60´s and are the oldest planes in the german military except for some Alouette II helicopters used for pilot´s training.
LawstudAlso Australian and Canadian Navy will fly them for a couple of years and will upgrade them, they wouldn´t do that if they would think they are obsolete.
I guess the P-3C will for the next twenty years be the most used maritime patrol aircraft.
All other modern alternatives (737MPA and MPA320)are too expensive for most countries. By the way the former eastern counterparts the IL-18 and the TU-95 Bears are also still in service and are being upgraded (e.g.India´s IL-18s).
LawstudThe changeable Cockpit would be a great idea. If they get LH with that, why not 😉 I hope that LH is really interested and not just playing with Boeing.
Since I´ve flown twice with a LH A300 this September, I can say that they need a good replacement, soon.
LawstudThe changeable Cockpit would be a great idea. If they get LH with that, why not 😉 I hope that LH is really interested and not just playing with Boeing.
Since I´ve flown twice with a LH A300 this September, I can say that they need a good replacement, soon.
LawstudBoeing listens as potential 7E7 buyers talk of likes, dislikes
By Dominic Gates
Seattle Times aerospace reporter
Resisting requests from some important airline customers, Boeing is hoping it can design the proposed 7E7’s cockpit Boeing-style, not Airbus-style.
German carrier Lufthansa, for example, would like Boeing to replace its traditional steering column with a side-stick controller, standard in Airbus jets.
Offering such details, Boeing yesterday provided a glimpse of some of the clashes of interest that must be resolved to arrive at the final configuration of the new jet.
At a news briefing, two airline executives — representing some 40 potential 7E7 customers meeting this week in Seattle — displayed distinctly different levels of enthusiasm for the new jet.
“This airplane, I believe, will be a superb machine for operating with the airlines in terms of its economy,” said Peter Gardner, a vice president of Hong Kong-based Cathay Pacific Airways. “To match it, the competition is really going to have to stretch out.”
Nico Buchholz, a senior vice president of Lufthansa, was more subdued. He said the initial 7E7 configuration that Boeing presented was “reasonably far from any Lufthansa requirement.”
The feedback caused Boeing to make changes. “The aircraft from our perspective has developed positively,” Buchholz said. “We still have some way to go.”
At yesterday’s meeting, Boeing presented detailed technical data to representatives of airlines and aircraft-financing companies.
Attendees will use the data to crunch numbers on fuel burn and weight applied to their own particular situations, then give Boeing more feedback.
Customers also got a look inside a mock-up of the interior of the new jet. They seemed impressed.
“You get a bit of a wow factor when you walk through the door,” said Gardner. “It will give you a completely different feel.”
He cited the sculpted interior surfaces, mood lighting, much larger passenger windows and spacious baggage-storage bins.
John Feren, Boeing vice president for customers on the 7E7 program, said the only area of wide discrepancy was over the Airbus-style side-stick versus the Boeing-style steering column.
While Buchholz confirmed Lufthansa wanted a side-stick controller, Gardner insisted with jovial vehemence that, in the end, “it won’t be a side-stick.”
“It’s something we’ve weighed,” said Feren. “We actually do have a pretty cool side-stick we’ve developed. We just didn’t think this was the time to do it.”
A side-stick appeals to airlines like Lufthansa, which have a large number of Airbus jets in their fleet and believe the stick could reduce training time. But Feren said a Boeing jet with a side-stick would not feel the same to a pilot as an Airbus jet.
“It wouldn’t have the same handling characteristics,” said Feren. “It would be a different animal.”
He said Boeing will use the 777 cockpit as a baseline for the design of the 7E7 cockpit and that it plans a three-day program to train pilots to transition from one to the other.
Still, this meeting was all about Boeing “listening to its customers.” So nothing was ruled out.
“The customer gets to decide,” said Feren. “If everybody tells us they aren’t going to buy it unless we (install a side-stick), you might get a different answer out of Boeing.”
Other 7E7 tidbits from the briefing:
• If the Boeing board gives the go-ahead for the 7E7, two versions will be launched in 2008: a long-range base model and a short-range version with smaller, thinner wings and more fuel efficiency. Gardner said the short-range variant could be “very attractive” to Cathay for services into China.
• Boeing has settled on a single landing-gear supplier for the 7E7. North Carolina-based Goodrich and Messier Dowty, a member of the Snecma Group of France, were vying for that contract. Feren did not identify the winner.
• Feren said Boeing plans to have two engine suppliers for the new jet.
Dominic Gates: 206-464-2963 or [email]dgates@seattletimes.com[/email]
LawstudBoeing listens as potential 7E7 buyers talk of likes, dislikes
By Dominic Gates
Seattle Times aerospace reporter
Resisting requests from some important airline customers, Boeing is hoping it can design the proposed 7E7’s cockpit Boeing-style, not Airbus-style.
German carrier Lufthansa, for example, would like Boeing to replace its traditional steering column with a side-stick controller, standard in Airbus jets.
Offering such details, Boeing yesterday provided a glimpse of some of the clashes of interest that must be resolved to arrive at the final configuration of the new jet.
At a news briefing, two airline executives — representing some 40 potential 7E7 customers meeting this week in Seattle — displayed distinctly different levels of enthusiasm for the new jet.
“This airplane, I believe, will be a superb machine for operating with the airlines in terms of its economy,” said Peter Gardner, a vice president of Hong Kong-based Cathay Pacific Airways. “To match it, the competition is really going to have to stretch out.”
Nico Buchholz, a senior vice president of Lufthansa, was more subdued. He said the initial 7E7 configuration that Boeing presented was “reasonably far from any Lufthansa requirement.”
The feedback caused Boeing to make changes. “The aircraft from our perspective has developed positively,” Buchholz said. “We still have some way to go.”
At yesterday’s meeting, Boeing presented detailed technical data to representatives of airlines and aircraft-financing companies.
Attendees will use the data to crunch numbers on fuel burn and weight applied to their own particular situations, then give Boeing more feedback.
Customers also got a look inside a mock-up of the interior of the new jet. They seemed impressed.
“You get a bit of a wow factor when you walk through the door,” said Gardner. “It will give you a completely different feel.”
He cited the sculpted interior surfaces, mood lighting, much larger passenger windows and spacious baggage-storage bins.
John Feren, Boeing vice president for customers on the 7E7 program, said the only area of wide discrepancy was over the Airbus-style side-stick versus the Boeing-style steering column.
While Buchholz confirmed Lufthansa wanted a side-stick controller, Gardner insisted with jovial vehemence that, in the end, “it won’t be a side-stick.”
“It’s something we’ve weighed,” said Feren. “We actually do have a pretty cool side-stick we’ve developed. We just didn’t think this was the time to do it.”
A side-stick appeals to airlines like Lufthansa, which have a large number of Airbus jets in their fleet and believe the stick could reduce training time. But Feren said a Boeing jet with a side-stick would not feel the same to a pilot as an Airbus jet.
“It wouldn’t have the same handling characteristics,” said Feren. “It would be a different animal.”
He said Boeing will use the 777 cockpit as a baseline for the design of the 7E7 cockpit and that it plans a three-day program to train pilots to transition from one to the other.
Still, this meeting was all about Boeing “listening to its customers.” So nothing was ruled out.
“The customer gets to decide,” said Feren. “If everybody tells us they aren’t going to buy it unless we (install a side-stick), you might get a different answer out of Boeing.”
Other 7E7 tidbits from the briefing:
• If the Boeing board gives the go-ahead for the 7E7, two versions will be launched in 2008: a long-range base model and a short-range version with smaller, thinner wings and more fuel efficiency. Gardner said the short-range variant could be “very attractive” to Cathay for services into China.
• Boeing has settled on a single landing-gear supplier for the 7E7. North Carolina-based Goodrich and Messier Dowty, a member of the Snecma Group of France, were vying for that contract. Feren did not identify the winner.
• Feren said Boeing plans to have two engine suppliers for the new jet.
Dominic Gates: 206-464-2963 or [email]dgates@seattletimes.com[/email]
LawstudWasn´t Air Europe signing a MoU regarding the A350 ???
LawstudWasn´t Air Europe signing a MoU regarding the A350 ???
LawstudSure 😀
Don’t say I’m not good to ya 😉
Thanks a lot !! But if there ever will be a 7e7 order by Lufthansa I pressume that it will be a 7e7-3 not a 7e7-8 :diablo:
@ Grey Area
Although LH may be a strong Airbus buyer and has a great A340 fleet and some A330-300, these birds are no real replacement for the A300-600.
Since Aibus has no real succesor for the A300 (A350 is more a A340-300 replacement as far as I know) and the A30X is also just a rumour until now.
I think LH is looking closely at the 7e7 and is said to be a likely customer.
Besides I still don´t believe that LH will be a single Airbus operator, like all major airlines LH will have a healthy mix in their fleet from Airbus and Boeings.
LawstudSure 😀
Don’t say I’m not good to ya 😉
Thanks a lot !! But if there ever will be a 7e7 order by Lufthansa I pressume that it will be a 7e7-3 not a 7e7-8 :diablo:
@ Grey Area
Although LH may be a strong Airbus buyer and has a great A340 fleet and some A330-300, these birds are no real replacement for the A300-600.
Since Aibus has no real succesor for the A300 (A350 is more a A340-300 replacement as far as I know) and the A30X is also just a rumour until now.
I think LH is looking closely at the 7e7 and is said to be a likely customer.
Besides I still don´t believe that LH will be a single Airbus operator, like all major airlines LH will have a healthy mix in their fleet from Airbus and Boeings.
Lawstudheres my contribution
a few designs I have done, showing what I feel the 7E7 will ultimately look like in a few of its potential customers liveries ending with one a little less likely than most, but what a coup that would be!
They look great. Can you also do a Lufthansa-version. Like I said in another thread I am still hoping that LH will replace their A300 with these birds.
Lawstudheres my contribution
a few designs I have done, showing what I feel the 7E7 will ultimately look like in a few of its potential customers liveries ending with one a little less likely than most, but what a coup that would be!
They look great. Can you also do a Lufthansa-version. Like I said in another thread I am still hoping that LH will replace their A300 with these birds.
LawstudNow that there aren’t many Russian submarines floating around the Atlantic, the primary mission of the Orion- ASW- is not a high priority for them, and they think the he coast-guard missions in the Antilles can be handled by smaller, less-capable patrol aircraft.
I have read in a german aviation magazine the other day, that the Dutch Airforce modified to Fokker F-60 for the coast guard missions in the Antilles.
LawstudYesterday the german parliament “Der Bundestag” has finally agreed on buying 8 P-3C Orion from the Netherlands. The deal is set.
Finally good news for the german navy since they have to give back their Tornados. The P-3s will replace the Breguet Atlantic as a MPA, the SIGINT-Versions of the Atlantic will properbly be replaced by unmanned “Euro-Hawks” (Global Hawk with mission electronic from EADS) -but that deal is not settled yet !!
LawstudBoring -another A vs. B thread.
To the topic 7e7 vs A350
We can not say nothing, yet !! Everything is just rumors. Gosh, my god now we are argueing about to planes who haven´t took off the drawing board, but we all now already their performances. Let´s wait untill both planes fly – or are officially launched (A350).
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