TaifunItalian Harvard – Well this is where the plot thickens. The prop was made in Scotland but found when clearing out a house just outside Buenos Aires, in Argentina. I have no details of how it got there. If only it could talk!
Skipper – Thank you – wear your boy Scout Detective badge with pride! The manufacturer is certainly the same. I found out a little more about them:-
“On the outbreak of war in 1914, Sir William Beardmore was immediately called on to supply guns, ships and aeroplanes in quantity. A great deal of money was invested in new buildings and plant to manufacture all this material, particularly at Dalmuir and at Mossend, where the works were completely reconstructed with help from the Ministry of Munitions.
After the end of the war, Sir William’s enthusiasm for expansion and development was unabated. He saw the future in terms of the manufacture of passenger aeroplanes, cars, railway engines and motor cycles and opened an experimental civil aviation department.”
I know sometimes we get off the topic here and the odd bicker can break out. Sometimes we just stare at fantastic pictures of great aircraft. However under it all runs a depth of knowledge that many posters here should be very proud of.
Thanks in advance for any further information that the forum might be able to offer..
Taifun
TaifunWow this is a good one..
Now its a complex issue and passions are running high, and 90% of my knowledge about this subject come from this thread. But a few observations:
This is 3rd Party Liability Insurance. It is enforced as a provision against the potential damage of it coming down. It was mentioned in this thread that there wouldn’t be much difference in the size of smoking hole (God forbid) if a 737 or Sally be came down, and I must say I agree. I wouldn’t expect any sympathy from the public because the life of a loved one or property was damaged / destroyed by an old plane rather than a spanky new 737. Imagine if you were rear ended in your car. Would you take a more flexible stance if your car was written off by a 60 year old MG rather than a new Ford? No, of course not, you want the correct amount of money to compensate you for your loss. As I understand it this directive sets that amount. The rest is in the hands of the insurance industry. They will assess the risk and quote accordingly. Is Sally B more likely to crash than a 737? Yes of course she is, so up the premium. Does she fly as many hours a year as a commercial 737? No she doesn’t, so reduce it. Each insurance company will play this balance and then competitive pressure between them will find the cheapest supplier. All that has happened, as I understand it, is that their potential downside in the event of a claim just got bigger, so, increased risk equals increased premium.
So is the amount of Liability cover correct? Well I don’t know where these numbers came from nor how often in the past they were reviewed. There are some similarities here to the row about speed cameras which always puzzles me. People appear to be against them? Why? If you don’t speed then they are not a problem. They just represent a new way to enforce the rule that has been in place for years. Now are the speed limits correct? Well that’s a whole new argument. They were set years ago when car / tyre performance was far inferior. Stopping distances are now much reduced from cars made 30 years ago – but then again some of these cars are still on the road – ummm its a tough one.
My point is that I think we should analyse if the rule is correct and appropriate (and like I said I have no idea how they come up with these numbers). If it is then sadly it makes sense, we are stuck with it and it should be enforced. If this is the case then all we have left to talk about is how we / charity / lottery / Government help to pay the increased premium rather than trying to knock a rule that potentially could be appropriate.
Sally B deserves to fly and most everyone, from the hardened enthusiast to the average man in the street, would agree I’m sure.
I wish her both a speedy solution and many safe future flying hours.
TaifunJainie – are you being cheeky young lady?!?!?!?
🙂
OK OK OK so the pyro’s on Sat were a little more exciting than usual.
It all started when Mr Nasty Local Farmer did a touch of “Get orf my land!” and wouldn’t let us dig holes for the pyros. I thought he was going to hit me when I eyed the big 100 acre field and asked what 5 sq ft of crop was worth. I wasn’t being lippy, I actually intended to buy the crop off him but he thought I was taking the piddle.
Anyway so we were forced to set up on the tarmac of the old runway where we can’t dig the hole we really need. Now the bomb is made using an explosive charge which lifts and ignites petrol which is in a bag sitting above it. Add a little cement powder to the top which gives the effect of white smoke.
Now I became paranoid about launching stones at Daz and the rest of the crowd (the very reason you dig the hole) so I placed a wall of tyres in front of the blast, at a good distance, to catch any flying debris.
Now, we placed a bin liner over the whole thing to stop it getting wet with the rain. This move sadly robbed us of the ability to see that one of the bags of petrol had leaked and mixed the cement powder into a thick porridge like substance which then didn’t launch properly. Instead it just ignited as a lump some of which landed on one of the tyres setting them off a treat. In the blink of an eye Hugh, Boo, Barney Mcgrew, Cuthbert, Dibble and Grub were in with the fire engine and doing their stuff.
In fact given another 3 minutes and mother nature would have put it out.
Anyway I was rightly read the riot act by the chief fire chief officer chief and had to promise not to do it again on Sunday…
I want to fly the plane from now on and let James do the messy booms and bangs.
TaifunDaz,
We enjoyed the weekend and I’m sorry we didn’t get to meet. Next time…
Taifun
TaifunJainie,
Thank God I got the ride with the fantastic Catalina (thanks again lads if you’re reading this!!).
After all the weather problems on Sat (the aircraft got stuck in Fife after uploading fuel and then had to scud run to Edinburgh) the trip home was no less traumatic. James and Stuart had to make another weather diversion ending up at Teeside. After staying the night in the airport hotel they headed for Southampton early this morning but again had to weather divert to Oxford, finally arriving home at about 11.
James and Stuart are both commercial pilots and were both due in the sim this morning at 9. Ooops…
🙂
Thanks again
TaifunDaz,
The 108 (Nord) is displaying, but I don’t have details of other aircraft attending…
Hope to see you there maybe.
TaifunOK I’ll try and answer my own question..
🙂
Whats the MTOM of the TBM? Is it over 12,000kg??
Take a look at the bottom of Page 4 (the table).
http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat/2004/l_138/l_13820040430en00010006.pdf
If it is then it will need 80,000,000SDRs 3rd party cover (approx £65m.) as of the 30th April this year.
The B25’s and B17’s must also be impacted by this new reg??
TaifunOK I know lots of half facts, can anyone else help out with the exact facts!!
I know with the new rules re 3rd party insurance that aircraft with MTOW of, I think, 12,500lbs (kgs??) will need to carry £66m (66m Euro???) insurance.
Does this new rule impact the European TBM population??
TaifunSome great stories from that part of the world…
One old boy was telling us how it used to be possible to buy time expired radial engines at auction from the airforce, and how the engines were really only ever about half life. By all accounts two things would happen.
1. It was standard practice for the airforce bods to sell fuel to the locals for their cars. In order to account for the lost fuel they used to falsify entries into the logs of the aircraft to account for the missing gas.
2. Pilots on the long cross country part of their training would instead fly to a local airfield where they were able to pick up chits from the two distant civil airfields they were meant to travel to. These chits were not only the proof that they had completed the cross country but it also served as an invoice for the fuel which was of course never purchased. The airfield operator would get paid by the airforce and split the money with the poor underpaid pilot who could sleep under a tree all day making sure he woke up in time to make his arrival back at base.
3. I won’t mention the ex airforce engineer who offered me some “bits” for sale. I was knocked for six when he showed me whole engines but really couldn’t believe my eyes when he swung open the barn doors to show a complete aircraft! Now, hands up, I’ve stolen the odd pen and post-it from work but this guy was in a different league!!!
🙂
TaifunThis aircraft has been very heavily modified. I believe it has a 300hp Lycoming and the cut down canopy means it now only has two seats, one behind the other. Daz I believe you are correct about the gas guns, they are/were meant to have made a fantastic noise!!
I believe the aircraft was oringinally modified in the USA, spent a brief period in South Africa before ending up in New Zealand.
I’m sure the motivation for this was film work but I can’t be specific for which movie. Must go well with 300hp…
🙂
TaifunThanks for all your positive comments guys. We hope to be involved in lots more airshows next season in whatever paint she wears..
Taifun
TaifunSorry guys I should have explained that KG+EM is what it currently wears. This is what we know about this aircraft:-
The aircraft is finished in desert camouflage to represent KG+EM, one of only two aircraft operated by Sonderkommando Blaich in North Africa in spring 1942.
The other aircraft was an Heinkel He 111 bomber.
This tiny unit was set up specifically to counter the British Long-Range Desert Group and SAS in the desert.
During 1940 and 1941, the British special forces had been causing havoc behind Axis lines by raiding airfields and carrying out vital reconnaissance missions which helped the British commanders to both plan their defences and attack Axis supply lines.
Theo Blaich, the commander of the unit which carried his name, was a wealthy plantation owner and adventurer living in Africa before the war. At the outbreak of the war he joined the Luftwaffe, bringing his own personal aircraft with him (the only man to do so).
He was aware that the Free French held the outpost of Fort Lamy (nowadays known as N’Djamena) in Chad. This was of major strategic importance to the Allies as it was the main supply point inland from the African west coast ports and oilfields. It was also a vital supply depot for the Allied special forces.
Shortly before General Rommel launched a major offensive with his Afrika Korps in January 1942, Blaich persuaded Rommel to allow him to attack the fort. However, this attack would require a round trip of some 2,500 km, well outside the usual range of German or Italian aircraft based in North Africa and beyond the resources of the normal Luftwaffe units in the Western Desert.
Sonderkommando Blaich was therefore set up specifically for this mission. The journey was planned in stages, with the Heinkel bomber being supplied with fuel brought by Italian aircraft to landing grounds along the route. On 21 January 1942 the unit set off, the Messerschmitt Bf 108 accompanying the Heinkel from their base in Libya.
The aircraft achieved total surprise and successfully bombed Fort Lamy, destroying all oil supplies and 10 aircraft on the ground.
On the way back, however, the aircraft got lost and was forced to land, undamaged, in the desert wastes. After a search lasting nearly a week the aircraft and crew were finally located and enabled to refuel their aircraft before returning to their base in Libya.
The unit was thereupon disbanded.
The aircraft is finished in the colour scheme carried by the original aircraft, which probably used Italian colours applied during a stay in Sicily, the Luftwaffe then being chronically short of appropriate desert camouflage paint.
TaifunThat’s the one they captured and took to the USA for Flight Evaluation..
Not sure about that paint. Its different, and got a story attached, so I gues I shouldn’t turn my nose up but..
Daz, the 109 looks great but I’m not sure if the CAA will accept it as authentic enough to allow the “no civvie reg” dispensation. Maybe I should ask the question..
Thanks for everything so far guys..
Taifun
TaifunHi Blue Leader,
Yes that’s the sort of thing..
We will need to be able to back it up historically for the CAA in order to achieve the dispensation required not to display the civil reg.
I’d love to have an Argus but you just can’t knock the “push button and go” reliability of the more modern Lycoming. Also because she’s on a full Private Cat CofA finding tagged engine parts is much easier than it would be with the Argus.
As for authenticity. Well if we are totally honest then at the moment I have a Nord 1002 with the wrong engine. If I put an Argus on it then it will still be a Nord 1002 with the wrong engine but I’ll be about £50k down and have an engine that needs O/H every 400 hours instead of 1,800!!
🙂
I have seen one picture of the 108 in RAF use, also some quite natty civil schemes including an aircraft operated by the German Embassy based in the UK at the outbreak of war. Trouble is I’ve got used to being the bad guy and don’t think I could live without the black cross.
BTW, I also have been told that almost all 109 units would have had a 108 as a hack and it would have been finished in the same scheme as the other 109s. So maybe any 109 scheme might be considered appropriate. Not sure if that will satisfy the CAA though..
Like I said, any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks all..
Taifun
TaifunMike you’re correct. In fact most of the aircraft still carry part numbers that start 108-XXX-XXX. The reality is that many of these aircraft were actually “re-manufactured” by the French by consolidating good parts from existing (sometimes damaged) airframes/stocks as opposed to new builds. The change is firewall forward with the addition of the Renault engine in place of the 108’s Argus. I believe the total production run was about 885 aircraft. Details of remaining airframes can be found here…
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