N.WotherspoonAny idea what the anson engines went for?
LT741 – £260
Criffel Peak – W/D
N.WotherspoonA very interesting auction. Whose owning up to buying what ?
Lancashire Aircraft EP.9 Prospector 2, G-ARDG 😀
N.WotherspoonNot wanting to be obtuse, but surely if this is the result of three years planning and the obstacles were as you say unsurmountable by many other groups, all undertaken on a very limited budget, then you have rather made my point for me! Anyway, that’s been debated plenty before and I don’t mean to drag it all up again.
If the obstacles appear too large for you to tackle, when time and funding can’t be guaranteed to be enough to complete the task effectively and without causing undue damage – then step back and walk away. You can’t save ’em all.
Good luck Ross!
Reply pending – Oh what’s the point! 🙁
N.WotherspoonCanberra
Besides the distance from “the South” please remember it is also a nearly 100 miles round trip just to and from the M6! And not the best roads at that – our haulage contractor, used to recover the LAIT collection, made this very clear to us! (He was great BTW). The local scrap dealer has already shown his cards by buying all the items that have come up for sale so far – and a couple that officially haven’t! So he will no doubt be there, so this is not going to sell for under scrap value if this is the case – as to whether he will do a deal – who knows? His method of loading the 748 cockpit by smashing a hole through the roof to get a pole in to lift it by, shows he has no aspirations to sell cockpits on later – but to be fair the locality is not ideal to attract buyers of such things.
I did suggest to the liquidators, when they were asking my advice over selling some of the “assets”, that the Canberra would perhaps be best split into a number of lots – i.e. fuselage (incl cockpit) wings (incl engines) etc has obviously not been passed on to the auctioneers (or has been ignored) – but then clearing the site is also one of their key objectives.
Finally in response to TT18Timbo – I have to say this is rather a over-simplification – the Canberra took at least three years to secure and the whole project was fraught with far more obstacles than many have groups had to deal with – the restrictions placed on its removal were, to be fair, tackled with a very limited budget and in the absence of any other interested parties – if it was not for the Millom museum, we would not even be having this conversation as it would be “Bacofoil” long ago – in fact the same could be said of many of the airframes they acquired.
N.WotherspoonWell, there’s not a lot left! Bruce
Well I did try to warn people! I also stand by my comments re condition of many items – this is very much the dregs after a number of interested parties have taken what they wanted for other museums. Also note the number of listings with the “a/f” disclaimer (“as found” i.e. broken damaged or incomplete), but at least some of the repro and dubious age items are a little clearer now.
I was a little shocked to see many items consolidated into surprisingly large “job lots” – typical of a liquidation sale, but very frustrating for collectors and impossible for internet bidders – but then this is not a specialist sale. Auctions were also my day job for a number of years and whilst not how I would have handled it, I recognise it is typical for this type of sale.
I would also reiterate Alan’s warning re the buyers premium + if bidding online find out what exactly they mean by “Should you require us to pack and post purchases at your expense, we are happy to assist and do so in-house” or you could get a shock. 😮
Oh! Pure Lightning – Yes I will be there – there are still a few gems in there – not what other people might call them but we all have our own tastes.;)
N.WotherspoonMagister
I had heard that the Magister recovered from Ullswater went to a local ATC group, where is rather unsurprisingly started to deteriorate, to the point it eventually was moved outside and disintegrated, whilst the instrument panel and engine were preserved – perhaps these are the parts that went to the other side of the country? As I have never been able to trace what happened to them.
N.WotherspoonHalifax DG230 is under a small lake/large pond just off the main road by the furniture shop at Kirk Hammerton on the Boroughbridge-York Road. There’s also a pile of recovered bits in the shrubs beside the pond. The locals refer to this as a Lancaster,
Jim
Further details and photo of the remaining parts on Richard Allanby’s excellent website – here: http://www.yorkshire-aircraft.co.uk/aircraft/yorkshire/dg230.html
N.WotherspoonTrying to hand crank a 27 litre supercharged merlin engine ? I think I will stick to the trollyacc (batteries in a barrow) which is what they used in WWII – Kind Regards Mike
Hi Mike
Below is a photo of part of the engine cowling from our recent excavation of Mustang IV (P-51K) KH 838, built in 1944 – However on the engine itself I note that there is a blanking plate over the starter dog – so it appears someone thought better of the idea! 😀 – However, somewhere I have the remains of the actual starter crank handle from another Mustang dig (III / P-51C) crashed 1945.
[ATTACH]191539[/ATTACH]
Also shows the importance of taking every bit of scrap on a dig and cleaning and sorting through it all carefully!
N.WotherspoonFrom memory some of the Albermarle parts were recovered from the quarry at Aspatria by the RAF museum, these parts consisted of the remains of 2 steel tube forward fuselage sections, some wing & other parts, they were given to the now defunct Pennine aircraft…. Cheer’s.
Mark.
Yes the parts went to the now defunct Pennine Aviation Museum – they had been in store at Hendon and I believe due to the loss of storage space were in danger of being scrapped. The parts consisted of two lorry trailer loads of tubular steel remains- mainly wingspar and centre section – probably representing the remains of two aircraft. However the Albermarles had been burnt prior to being bulldozed into the quarry, so they were not in particularly good condition and the remains ended up being scrapped after several years storage in the open – which I have detailed previously.
Only the cockpit section frames were made up from stainless steel tubing and so were easily identified and two cockpit frames were partially reassembled – originally these frames would have been encased in a aluminium shell – none of which survived the burning. I believe Mr Stansfield still has them in storage, though now again disassembled and I believe he has been back to the quarry and recovered further smaller parts.
As well as aircraft parts (from burnt aircraft) there was a lot of other material dumped in the quarry, including vehicle remains, rubble and general refuse, making getting at the “gems” difficult as they were apparently in the bottom layer and removing the overburden of rubbish and rubble made recovery prohibitively expensive and extracting anything without doing this would be very dangerous / difficult. More recently I have also heard that industrial waste was also dumped in the quarry and the cost implications of uncovering and then having to dispose of this material properly under today’s rules and regulations also means that “official” recovery of further substantial remains is unlikely?
N.WotherspoonStirling tail turret ended with no bids??
Again!
Still if he keeps at it, he will find the market value in the end.
N.Wotherspoonseen on that auction website…
Again!
N.WotherspoonThey do look good – was it not salt water though? any conservation problems?
N.WotherspoonWell put together / tied together – another well done to all who made it happen- certainly seemed to redress the balance re telling the personal stories of those involved.
BTW – Our Mustang dig filming has finally been completed and it is in editing – due to go out as a half hour BBC Inside Out special in January – simultaneously in the North West and South East / London area – will post details on a new thread as soon as I have confirmation.
N.WotherspoonI have had conflicting accounts from the liquidators themselves as to whether the Moran collection has actually been removed or not – last I heard it definitely had – However, even if not, I can’t see them being included in any auction, so if your 10K included them, then that’s a very big dent in this estimate.
They also keep reiterating to me that they are not looking for offers for individual items, though one or two individuals, who they have given access to, have made such offers and these were in their opinion as Mike says – too low.
Yes an auction is expensive to arrange these days – I should know, I used to work for one – Public liability insurance and the safety of the venue, especially industrial workplaces, is a big issue – perhaps this is why they are allowing the worst airframes to be removed – which doesn’t bode well for the Canberra in its current state if that is the case – they are also paranoid now about the radioactive content of the airframes – i.e. instruments I assume – after being warned off selling such items by the IWM no less. Getting the power back on will cost, then there is moving all the smaller items to the venue – assuming it will be the factory, which it may not – they may use another venue entirely.
Finally they will need a proper catalogue – which they most definitely don’t have at present as the list they have published is wholly inaccurate IMO + they don’t have anyone to do one for them – well not without adding further cost and all this is making them very nervous that the total cost of the exercise will outweigh the return – hardly surprising if you add their charges on top of all that!
N.WotherspoonPlease note: Do not rush up there & help yourselves – the two items were claimed by and sold by their owner on eBay and went for well under scrap value – probably due to poor timing of the auction (current weather conditions) and remoteness of location & hence transport costs (IMO). The liquidators had nothing to do with the sale and are still “considering their options” with regard to the museum owned assetts – apparently!
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