Ray Sturtivant advises me:-

“The code is AR8J which makes it 772 Sqn at Ayr.”

He also asks can you read the serial number on the original print please?

Mark

Unfortunately herein lies the problem – the original picture is printed on very coarse paper and reading the serial is proving impossible, otherwise we’d be home and dry. The original thought was the bands were ident markings but that would seem not to be the case but it’s proving to be a stubborn beast to identify!

Hi Skypilot,
I’ll stick with my original statement. 🙂 Sure they might be some other markings, but Swordfish DID have D-Day stripes with these colours, and I’ve not seen other markings like this that weren’t. 99% certain.

As for the rear gun. The Fairey High Speed Mount (to give it it’s correct name!) stowed completely away inside the aft decking. I don’t have a photo to hand, but you wouldn’t see it in that shot unless the TAG was waving the gun about. By 1944 most of the guns had been removed anyways, as it was realised that evasion and hurling abuse were more effective against enemy fighters.

As Flood’s pointed out, the codes are interesting…

HTH,
Cheers!

Thanks James. I didn’t doubt your original answer, honest guv! Just trying to find an explanation that fit. Flood’s answer helps to clarify things too.

As you both say, bit of a mystery with the markings. Would the likely explanation therefore be a spare 705NAS a/c used as a station “hack”?

As always guys, thanks for taking time to educate the simpleton! It’s the only way I’ll learn.

Dean

Alleged Swordfish under runways at Manchester (Ringway) anyone?

Personally, I love all these rumours because the boy in me still longs for them all to be true and that I’ll be the one who…well, we can all dream can’t we? And you just never know when it may be true. Dreams help me to cope with the harsh reality. Of for the halcyon days of yore, with scrapyards overflowing with yet another Spit/Typhoon/Mossie etc.! I dreamt of flying aeroplanes as a young boy and that finally came to be so who knows! Rest assured, when me (& Indy of course!) eventually do find just one of these stashes, I’ll let you all know first, promise. No, honestly I will.

Maybe. 😉

Dean

Further confusion?

Just got this superb reply to a new appeal for help on the RAF Commands forum – you must check it out, a real mine of information and Ross McNeill rightly deserves all the plaudits he gets.

The “postee” was a chap called SteveB and I owe him a huge “Thank You”! and all the credit is his.

“There is book about the history of 262Sqdn/35SAAF Sqdn called “Flying Boat” by Ivan Spring self-published by Spring Air in 1995 ISBN 0-9583977-2-4. On pages 30 and 31 it provides the following lenghty report of the incident on 25 June 1943:
Fg.Off. F N C White and crew took off from St. Lucia in Catalina FP265/H at 19 10 hours on 25 June to fly anti-submarine shipping escort, but the aircraft plunged into the lake immediately after becoming airborne and exploded. Eight of the crew were killed, the severely injured Engineer being the sole survivor.

During the morning Fg.Off. White and crew had been detailed and briefed by Flt.Lt. Hoey, the Operations Controller at St. Lucia, to carry out an operational flight from Lake St. Lucia in Catalina FP265/H. The night was moonless, calm and clear with glassy water and take-off at Lake St. Lucia commenced at 1910 hours on 25 June.

In conditions of no wind with an unruffled surface, it is difficult to get a flying boat to break the water and rise on to the step. At the request of the captain that he create a wash and break the surface, the Officer in Charge of the Flarepath – Plt.Off. N L Keeble – therefore disturbed the water by circling the centre flare in his motor dinghy en route to take up his position at the end of the flarepath. During the take-off run the aircraft approach and passed him, still waterborne but on the step. He saw it lift from the water between 100 and 200 yards beyond the third flare and saw the exhaust flames and tail light rise as it entered the climb. He then took his eyes from the aircraft but moments later there was a “terrific flash of reddish colour and a muffled explosion”. A large patch of water seemed to be on fire.

He immediately signalled the shore for assistance and had the coxwain head for the flames, which were some four hundred yards away to the south, at full throttle. A large part of the water was still aflame and they circled the edge of the flame searching for survivors. One man was located floundering in the water. As they approached him they saw him sink out of sight twice, but were able to haul him in as he was going down for the third time. He was not wearing a life jacket, his face was burned and he had lost his trousers, shoes and socks. He was semi conscious and complained of the cold. As there was no sight of any other survivors in the light of the flames, the Flarepath Officer had the cox turn for the jetty to get the survivor back to dry land and medical attention as soon as possible.

On the way to the jetty, Keeble passed the bomb scow which was en route to the crash site and instructed its crew to move the south flare to mark the crash site and to continue the search for survivors.

There was no SAAF Medical Officer or Orderly at the camp at Eastern Shores but a SA Army Orderly attended to the survivor, Sgt. Benjamin Lee, who was suffering from severe shock. The Squadron Medical Officer, who was at St. Lucia town some twelve miles away, had been contacted. Lee was given first aid, and wrapped up to keep his body warm. Despite his severe shock, the man was fit enough to be taken to Congella and to the hospital the following day.

Other witnesses stated that the Catalina had been pulled from the water and had risen sharply to a height of about fifty feet and had then descended rapidly, nose down, until it had struck the water, bursting into flames on impact.

In evidence it was stated by the Officer Commanding that Fg.Off. White was a Catalina pilot of more than average experience and that he was perfectly satisfied with his competence as a captain of aircraft.

It was practice in conditions of dead calm to pull the aircraft cleanly from the water and to climb clear steeply before levelling off to let the speed build up for a normal climb away. Fg.Off. White had flown the aircraft from Congella that morning and, as his own second pilot had been at St. Lucia, Sgt. L T Allen had flown as second pilot on the transit. Once at Congella, Sgt. R F Jenkins, the regular second pilot, had rejoined Fg.Off White’s crew and Sgt. Allen had joined another crew. Allen testified that White’s take-off from Congella in conditions of very light wind and the landing at St. Lucia had been good. Although White had done the take-off and touchdown he had let Sgt. Allen fly the aircraft during the ninety-minute transit. The Catalina had handled normally and the engines had performed satisfactorily.

At Congelia Fg.Off. White had pulled the aircraft off at 75 knots and had climbed to 150 feet before lowering the nose to accelerate, as was safe and normal practice in conditions of calm.

A party of two naval rating divers from HMS “Revenge” under Lt. A G MacLachlan RN, had been taken to the camp at Eastern Shores to salvage parts of the aircraft and to recover bodies. The divers found that in only ten foot of coffee-coloured muddy water the underwater visibility was nil. Any salvage attempts would have had to be made by touch alone. The team had only shallow water diving equipment and, owing to the coldness of the water, the maximum period that could be spent in the water was fifteen minutes. After that it was necessary to thaw out and it was some time before a man could go back into the water again. The aircraft wreckage was badly torn and disintegrated so that any salvage or recovery operation with only shallow water diving equipment was quite impracticable. It would also be necessary to recover the six depth charges before progressing with general salvage which would entail feeling, cutting away and pulling up wreckage piece by piece. This would take several weeks. For these reasons the salvage attempts were abandoned.

In his statement the Engineer said that the aircraft had been serviceable and that he had been standing below his position in the pylon during take-off. The captain and second pilot had occupied their respective seats in the cockpit and the navigator and the W/T operator had been in their seats. There had been no-one at the blisters, the rest of the crew having been forward in either the navigator’s or Engineer’s compartments where the captain liked them to be during take-off.

Lee had not been wearing his life jacket and three life jackets had been found in the area of the crash. They were Navy lifejackets of a new type with which the crew were unfamiliar. They needed to be inflated by mouth and, unlike the RAF pattern kapok-filled lifejackets, were unable to keep the wearer afloat unless this was done.

The bodies of the rest of the Catalina crew were recovered between 2 July and 9 July. Four of the deceased, Fg.Off. F N C White, Flt.Sgt. T H T Lane, Sgt. A F Soady and Sgt. R F Jenkins were Australians, and the remaining four, Sgts A J Mills, R T Cork, T J Burrington and R P Kay, were Royal Air Force NCO aircrew.

Steve”

This is great but adds a bit of further confusion into the melting pot – the Ben Lee I have a picture of is a pilot not a Flight Engineer, and in the German report it refers to him as a 3rd pilot/Engineer (if my schoolboy German is correct). Whilst retraining cannot be ruled out, one would think after such injuries he would not have flown much more before wars end. Futher throws into cinfusion about the caterpillar badge which, if we are talking about the same 2 people (Badge & Catalina crash) must have been awarded after he returned back to ops! Yet……

So much of the other information fits it seems to be too much of a coincidence.

Hmmmm! Any more input?

Here’s the extra crew members we didn’t know of:

Name: CORK, RICHARD THOMAS
Initials: R T
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Sergeant (W.Op./Air Gunner)
Regiment: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text: 262 Sqdn.
Age: 23
Date of Death: 25/06/1943
Service No: 1293579
Additional information: Son of Mr and Mrs R.Cork, of Dagenham, Essex, England.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Block F. Grave 384.
Cemetery: DURBAN (STELLAWOOD) CEMETERY

Name: BURRINGTON, TREVOR JOHN
Initials: T J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Sergeant (W.Op./Air Gnr.)
Regiment: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text: 262 Sqdn.
Age: 18
Date of Death: 25/06/1943
Service No: 1293709
Additional information: Son of Lt.Col. Rupert Burrington M.B.E. and Gladys Burrington, of Bitterne Park, Southampton, England.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Block F. Grave 386.
Cemetery: DURBAN (STELLAWOOD) CEMETERY

Name: KAY, ROBERT PENMON
Initials: R P
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Sergeant (F.M.Airf./Air Gnr.)
Regiment: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text: 262 Sqdn.
Age: 21
Date of Death: 25/06/1943
Service No: 1554944
Additional information: Son of John and Mary Helen Kay, of Denny, Stirlingshire, Scotland; husband of Margaret Lynn Kay, of Denny.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Block F. Grave 397.
Cemetery: DURBAN (STELLAWOOD) CEMETERY

May they all rest in peace.