Jungle BoyWell no one said they do everything, i only said they assemble and license built the Esquilo and Panther i know i few have been built of the former.
Oh boy. They are doing almost the entire Esquilo there.;)
Fabricação de peças e instalações opcionais
A Helibras já produz no País algumas peças, conjuntos e instalações opcionais para o Grupo Eurocopter. Entre eles, está um conjunto de suporte de espelhos retrovisores do modelo Esquilo, o conduto de distribuição de fluxo de ar condicionado para a cabine do Colibri EC 120, kit aeromédico para o helicóptero Esquilo, carenagens blindadas em materiais compostos e instalações de armamentos axiais para versões militares do Esquilo e Dauphin.
Source: Helibras website.
What pieces of tecnology from the brazilian high-tec aerospace industry.;)
I believe that in the 80s the brazilian company Aeromot manufactured some basic avionics for the Esquilo but since the current instruments are much more complex they quit manufacturing those instruments due lack of money for development and expertise.
The only good news is that France finally allowed Helibras to perform a major overhaull in the Panther, refurbishment of Cougars still forbidden. According to one source they only did that because Sikorsky offered to the Brazilian Army the UH-60 Blackhawk and would acept the Panthers as part of the payment. Sikorky had no problems allowing Brazil the right to perform major overhaulls in the UH-60 fleet.
In fact Helibras has built more than 300 helicopters and at least 151 military helicopters for the brazilian armed forces.
I´m sorry, but theree´s a big diference between Manufacturing and Assembling. Helibras only assembles foreing made parts.
Jungle BoyEurocopter already has stablished production plants in Brazil and Mexico, Brazil did assemble a few Panther helicopters domestically and in Mexico at least some production is going on i do not know if they have built parts, spares or assembled helicopters look
Eurocopter/Helibras only assembles helicopters in Brazil. There´s no production line there, perhaps the paint is brazilian made. Of course they promissed to Brazil in the 80s that a production line would be open there if they bought the Panthers which they did and it did not happened.
In the 90s they did the same with the Cougars and again there were no production line openned there. Another lie. To get worse this situation, only France is allowed to refurbish Panthers and Cougars. Helibras was not certified by Eurocopter for this level of maintenance. So Brazil has to send those helicopters to France if they need a major overhaull which usually takes more than six months and costs the triple or more if the job was done in Brazil.
Jungle BoyFinnally official, keep Yeovil factory busy for a while!
http://www.avionews.com/index.php?corpo=see_news_home.php&news_id=1082317&pagina_chiamante=index.php
Dave
It appears that the algerians are having some problems with the russians (MiG RSK) and this purchase is some kind of “blackmail” to pressure the russians to deliver what they really want.
Jungle BoyWith only 12 planes built the support isn`t cheap, its future is not for sure. I agree with you maybe the L-159 is too much for the FAB. About the training maybe in the contract the FAB buy some L-159B.
¡Saludos!
What about the chinese K-8?
It´s a cheap option and could replace the T-33. Maybe the bolivian government can reach some kind of deal with China with Venezuela as sponsor.
Jungle BoyBy the way, it is not the duty of the USA to decide, what kind of government a country in Latin-Amerika has to have.
But it should be. What´s good for USA is good for all latin america.
Jungle BoyOH NO, those pesky South Americans, buying fighters… OH MY…
Why would some pacific coffee planters need combat jets?!!! :rolleyes:
Just don´t forget that latino thing:
“The mine is bigger than yours”.
Do you want a good example?
The Foch purchase by the Brazilian Navy was just a show of over the Armada Argentina. The fact is that the Sao Paulo is useless. The Armada Argentina have the capability to sink this white elephant and it acquired this capability almost 30 years ago. Untill now FAB has nothing to match this.
Jungle BoyThe Brazilians actually have a space program,
Last time I check this program was “exploded”.
and popular support from the public..
Brazilians don´t like wars. They like soccer, samba, carnaval and beer. This is something the romans used to call “panis et circus”. When Bolivia #@$%*& Brazil over the gas issue (and it happened again with the gas expected to went up over 15%) there wasn´t a single popular demonstration against the Bolivian government. I just don´t remember to see the brazilian people burning bolivian´s flags on the front of their embassy.
If Venezuela transgressed on the sovereignty of Brazil there would be a serious response from the latter against them.
With this “Diplomacia de Companheiros” nothing will happen.
Jungle BoyGive the Mirages AEW support, a well-developed ground radar system, & good airborne & ground-based comms support & give the Flankers no AEW, inferior ground radar, & inferior (ground-based only) comms. How much does that change the equation?
Just don´t forget those mysterious black holes on this supposed ” well-developed ground radar system, & good airborne & ground-based comms support” wich can very explored by a good air forve like FAV.
I agree that Brazil has and edge when it comes to the AEW but you should consider that the border between Venezuela and Brazil its just not covered as the border between Brazil and Argentina.
Jungle BoyThis is going to be between Gripen and Rafale
If this purchase go ahead it will be decided on bribes. Whoever pays more will win the contract. Dassault has an edge over SAAB because Mr. Lula´s party was in its pay roll during the now dead FX Program.
I think France will be finally able to sell the Rafale. Dassault has as lemon on his hand and it´s eager to sell it and there´s a saying in Brazil that ilustrate this situation very well:
“Everyday a fool leaves home, you just have to find one.”
I think France finally found the fool they needed to sell the Rafale.
Jungle BoySorry guys, but wasn´t this topic about Flankers for Venezuela or it changed to ethnic comparisons?
Why don´t we tal about those Flankers again?
Jungle BoyHi Jungle Boy, sure I’m Brazilian, but if Lula and Chavez weren’t THE BEST OF BUDDIES, Lula would have put up some form of harsh diplomatic response to Evo Morales’ unilateral move against Petrobras.
Lula didn´t stand up against Morales because he´s weak, his government is corrupt and since it´s World Cup year he knows the people will forget.
But quite the contrary, Lula goes on national TV only to say he “understands and respects the Bolivians’ reasons” for doing what they did to us… Zero reaction, no ambassadors recalled, nada!
Evo´s act was against the law, the bolivian law and international treaties.
Just remember that before the meeting intended to solve the Gas Crisis between Brazil and Bolivia, Chaves went to La Paz to have a chat with Morales and gave him a ride in his plane to Brazil. What was the content of this litle chat they had before? Why only Chaves did the talk and Evo remained with his mouth shutted in the meeting? You should ask yourself that.
There will be no military crisis with Venezuela while Mr Lula is our president.!
Chaves knows that he don´t stand a chance against US or EU military forces which makes me think what´s the real intention in buying all that stuff. He has one big target in mind and that target is Brazil with its weak military forces.
He may move against Brazil in the near future, perhaps the bigest step to became the true leader of south america.
Jungle BoySorry to barge in, but: This line of thought is rather futile, Lula is “best Buddies” with Chavez, there is NO POSSIBILITY WHATSOEVER of the FAVs fighters to be used aginst Brazil.
Are you sure about this? Could you explain to me Chavez´s role in the recent Brazil-Bolivia Gas Crisis. Chavez acted against Brazilian´s interests in Bolivia. It was betrayal and to me big enough to withdraw the Brazilian ambassador in Caracas and La Paz.
I believe the brazilian´s taxpayers and Petrobras shareholders will pay more than 2 billion dollar to continue this “best buddies” policy.
If you live in Brazil you´ll remember my words the next time you go to a gas station, but please wait for the elections, and to be more precisely, wait after the elections, You´ll see what this “best buddies” will do.
Jungle BoyVenezuela Army is one of the more modern army in Latin America? Brazil has 128 Leopard1A1( more 240 “1A5” coming soon) and 91 M-60A3TTS and hundreds Cascavel. Chile has 202 Leopard Iv, Argentina has 260 TAM and Peru has 150 T-72. All armies better then Venezuela.
Sorry, but none of those MBT are modern. The majority of them are mid 70 design. The true is:
When it comes to land forces all Latin America armies are outdated.
Unless a batch of Leopard II, M-1A1, Leclerc, Chalenger II or T-90 had arrived in the last few days, the current situation on all latin american armies is that they´re obsolet.
Jungle BoyYou guys are talking bout Venezuela versus US, but I think it´s the Brazilian Navy who should be worried about the possibility of Venezuela arming its Flankers with modern anti-ship missiles. It is well know that the brazilian fleet lacks modern anti-aircraft defenses capable to defend themselves against such threat. This purchase will certainly affect the balance of power in the region.
The aircraft carrier Sao Paolo is an easy target since it has only short range defenses as well its escort.
Jungle BoyThe A-50E is the export version. This was offered to China after the A-50I fell apart. China opted to develop its own KJ-2000 instead.
You´re right. I checked on Rosoboronexport web site and de A-50 is there, avaliable for export.
But, despite the fact the A-50 is on sale, I don´t think Venezuela can afford it even when the oil prices are high. I belive the KJ-2000 is more suitable with FAV´s budget.
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