No. The question is was the speed downgraded requirement for the Raf* pertinent with the 21st threat scenario and the derived concept of an all Raf force.
I think there is some parallel with the USAF/USN scenario. The fact that the USN is looking alrdy for a 6th**, presumably, more kinetics airplane (but we still hven’t seen what are the requirements) tells us that both those design didn’t encompass one segment of the threat.

And the most acute question, partially answered by the USN procurement policy: Is multi-decade procurement still a valid policy?

*Raf stand for RAFALE
**or a SUPER LightningII derivative (Lightning2+ ?)

U.N. Security Council voted unanimously resolution on Syrian chemical weapons

The way the coalition is going to setup the operation in order to safely remove CW out of Syria to be destructed in Russia will be interesting to follow. Russia and the US will certainly hve to operate together and might be involved in direct support or show of force (at least) operations.

President Obama:
“I think there are legitimate concerns as to how technically we are going to be getting those chemical weapons out while there’s still fighting going on the ground”

If everything goes as expected (does not means it will go smoothly) that will be a tremendous powerful signal send to the world.

On the other hands, it seems a low end alternative hve been planed. CNN:

The official said that in order to meet international deadlines for destruction of Syria’s chemical weapons, the group may opt for a “quick and dirty” program that would render the weapons unusable but wouldn’t destroy them [..].

So with that F-7GS kill, no fighter involved in the list is without a kill of its own (i.e. the MiG-21).

Fascinating.

Yeah, that was what I was thinking. I’ve heard of tons of drug runner interceptions and such in South America over the past decade, including incidents involving aerial exchange of fire. Since you include UAV shootdowns, light utility aircraft shootdowns etc. there has to be something there that could make it to the list.

[…]

The venerable A37 and Pucara might figure as the absolute killers if we include drug smuggler’s planes shot-down in the list. A good tribute to their utility.

Failing that the more thoughtful among us will simply write your comment off as slightly racist and nationalist drivel.

Tht’s really funny. But when you try to embrace the world only by counting your toes, that’s what happens I guess.

Regarding my “criticism” against stealth as function of Eu bashing, fair enough, I would hve to explain myself.

When the 117 and the first UAV appeared, the position of the Eu industries was to says that those were only hyped gadgets for over-fed (fiscally) Americans armies. Consequently, no real resources were allocated to this new field of tech to protect the near evangelic view of future fighter fighter procurement among the few other program seen as vital, leading, us, or shall I says, we, European, to lack behind US/Israel and now most of the emerging countries (including China).

Re-read the above, substituting the word UAV for Stealth and you’ll be able to build my (rather simplistic but, hey, you deserve it) argumentation regarding the latter.

yes it comes as a surprise but it reflects the political “new deal” among the Turkish society. With the drive out of Eu focus (thx partly to French political will – so no surprise French lost the tender) and away from the US direct line of interest for various reasons, we see a refocus toward a new balance of power in Med-ME with Israel and the obvious focus on the triptics (Israel, China, Turkey) on defense tech matter.

By the way, I don’t think the US industry will protest.

Well its square, but its pretty irrelevant to talk about RCS on fighters that by nature will maneuver constantly, and thus rcs going from 1dm^2 ->4m^2 at all time.

*my note

This is why the PakFA is built with the capacity to bank at 0° pitch, slide flat at high yaw angle and pitch without the tail moving.

Regarding the RCS, the sphere is the ref (remember that story of Ben Rich rolling that golf ball on the desk of generals ? 😉 )

So if tracking technology fails to keep up with stealth technology, we’ll we be back to pre-1930s – knife fighting dog fights based on near random encounters as there is no way for anyone to actually reliably track enemy aircraft?

No, the one side with inferior stealth tech will die. The other will prevail through avoidance, BVR* and sneak attack.

*Every conscious nation with superior stealth tech will makes sure they feed a counter-stealth team with enough data to keep-up with the tech advance. Hence, if you’ve got the best stealth outta here, you are for sure among the ones leading the countering tech. An evidence to say but as we ear so much fallacious claims relative to that subject, I found a necessity to write it down once more.

By the way, extreme kinematics perf is an anti-stealth tech by itself 😉

The F-14 horizontal stab were experimenting with carbon-carbon laminates in 1968. The F-15 prototypes skipped carbon-carbon honeycombs for an aluminum honeycomb because of oxidation problems and delamination problems. Dassault hardly led the development of these composites…

Yes. Yes. You’re absolutely right. Re-reading my post I came myself also to this conclusion that this is what the reader might think I am trying to say.

Obviously it’s not. This is why I paid attention to mention the Valky, the SR71 and the X10. Those project pre-dating what ever MD brought up to the scene (although the integral wing skin was a “world first”).

Usage of such tech in the 14 and 15 are good examples. Lockheed Tristar would hve been worth mentioning too. But I Forgot it.