GollevainenNice writting jack…I too find myself strage to speak about the brach that I love some much (artillery) in situation like this, but its a crazy world…
About those submutions, I heard about accusations of Israelian using normal 155mm submution rounds and in one fast news clip which showed some M109 SP systems had quite familiar rounds alongside it…I cannot be sure, but they looked afull lot similar to the ones we used back in the army days (We only trained once on these rounds and they were labeled very special and almoust secretive by our instructors) So in this case the Israelians are in no position to critizise Hizbollahs warhead types, becouse they are using them as well and I bet my as that Israeli artillery is about 110% more effective than Hizbollahs 😉
Gollevainenhmmm :confused: I tought the same boxes aplyed to SS-N-14 and SS-N-9 (for example it was fist tought that Krivaks used the later and caused much trouple to western naval thinkers..) Also there were shortrange anti-ship version of the project 934 cruisers (never materialized and the 934 eventually become project 1134)
The lauchers of SS-N-22 and SS-N-14 are quite different, I fail to see any justification that some professionals might confuse the two….
GollevainenBecause Israel is otherwise willing to coexist side-by-side with the Palestinians peacefully with out this unnecessary bloodshed. All it would take is for the Palestinians to knock off the terrorism and offensive strikes and all would essentially be at peace. That seems to be the status quo in that region until yet another radical Islamic faction decides to start up the fight again and bring hell to both sides of the situation.
Radical Islam holds the key to peace in its actions, not Israel. Israel’s resolve naturally gravitates toward peace while radical Islam gravitates toward conflict. This is why no one seems to listen when radical Islamists yell about the loss of innocent lives at the hands of Israel. Should I preach to the bees about the pain my children suffer every time I thrust a stick into their hive? Should I expect them to care enormously about my suffering if it comes at the hand of my own idiocy?
Israel gravitates towards peace?? Well then there must be bit different gravitation down there thna up here :rolleyes:
The 3 clowns will likely agree to have NATO peacekeeper establish a buffer zone (about as uselessly as the UNFIL peacekeepers). All this means is Hezbollah will get longer range Fajar-3 missiles from Iran and shoot them over NATO’s heads into Israel. Lebanon will agree because Rice offered $$$$$s Billions from the US Treasury as aid.
Or they might bought some ashskjraskshs (or what ever was the new iranian fighter is called) and make even worse bombings…and not to mention about the soon-to-become nukes…man Israelians should just kill every single arab living othervice they are facing doom, a doom, A DOOM…. 😉
GollevainenBecause Israel is otherwise willing to coexist side-by-side with the Palestinians peacefully with out this unnecessary bloodshed. All it would take is for the Palestinians to knock off the terrorism and offensive strikes and all would essentially be at peace. That seems to be the status quo in that region until yet another radical Islamic faction decides to start up the fight again and bring hell to both sides of the situation.
Radical Islam holds the key to peace in its actions, not Israel. Israel’s resolve naturally gravitates toward peace while radical Islam gravitates toward conflict. This is why no one seems to listen when radical Islamists yell about the loss of innocent lives at the hands of Israel. Should I preach to the bees about the pain my children suffer every time I thrust a stick into their hive? Should I expect them to care enormously about my suffering if it comes at the hand of my own idiocy?
Israel gravitates towards peace?? Well then there must be bit different gravitation down there thna up here :rolleyes:
The 3 clowns will likely agree to have NATO peacekeeper establish a buffer zone (about as uselessly as the UNFIL peacekeepers). All this means is Hezbollah will get longer range Fajar-3 missiles from Iran and shoot them over NATO’s heads into Israel. Lebanon will agree because Rice offered $$$$$s Billions from the US Treasury as aid.
Or they might bought some ashskjraskshs (or what ever was the new iranian fighter is called) and make even worse bombings…and not to mention about the soon-to-become nukes…man Israelians should just kill every single arab living othervice they are facing doom, a doom, A DOOM…. 😉
GollevainenThanks again shiplover…If there would only be photos of the first model from a different angle…
GollevainenIs there anybody in this forum that has served in the military? Its seems like most folks here don’t have a understanding of war and conquest.
Corporal in the finnish army (in reserve at the moment), reporting to duty :p
As for not caring about the Arab body count. All I see on the news is them chanting “Death to America!” “Death to Israel!” and burn our flag and ram planes into buildings. So why should I care when we bomb and kill them?
So when all we see from the news is innocent palestinians and lebanese being killed by you guys…So why should we care if they make terrorist attacks agaisnt USA and Israel and kill them???
GollevainenIs there anybody in this forum that has served in the military? Its seems like most folks here don’t have a understanding of war and conquest.
Corporal in the finnish army (in reserve at the moment), reporting to duty :p
As for not caring about the Arab body count. All I see on the news is them chanting “Death to America!” “Death to Israel!” and burn our flag and ram planes into buildings. So why should I care when we bomb and kill them?
So when all we see from the news is innocent palestinians and lebanese being killed by you guys…So why should we care if they make terrorist attacks agaisnt USA and Israel and kill them???
GollevainenHey Gollevainen, what flamebait are you talking about? I asked you some questions and stated some facts and you accuse me of flaming.
Since in your mind genocide doesn’t have a body count then Finland is guilty of genocide for sending those three Jewish people to the death camps. However I’m sure those people and their families feel better because it was an accident. Some would debate what is worse committing genocide or watch it happen and doing nothing to stop it. The UN has let genocide happen on its watch all over the world and done nothing, but that’s ok with you because the UN didn’t pull the trigger, right?
The truth hurts, Europe has a history of mistreating the Jewish people. That’s probably why the Jewish people didn’t want their new state in Europe.
We finns have had our share of genosides, tough this was inour civilwar and nothing to do with anything ethinical…But back in the 41-44 we really had something else on our mind that wheap over others when we were too busy to defend our own nation. Perhpas If you yeanks and british would had helped us we wouldn’t have to go under germanys arms…but you were too busy to help another genosider so what can you say…
The UN has let genocide happen on its watch all over the world and done nothing, but that’s ok with you because the UN didn’t pull the trigger, right?
It most certainly had…like the Pol Pot incidence that you mentioned…Funniest thing in that was that it was USA who suported Pol Pot in the UN and Soviets who were agaisnt him. It was only when soviet helped Vieatnamese kicked the red khmers out of power when someone did something…So when now USA just watches from the side when Israel is bombing civilian targets, one might say history is repeating itself…
GollevainenHey Gollevainen, what flamebait are you talking about? I asked you some questions and stated some facts and you accuse me of flaming.
Since in your mind genocide doesn’t have a body count then Finland is guilty of genocide for sending those three Jewish people to the death camps. However I’m sure those people and their families feel better because it was an accident. Some would debate what is worse committing genocide or watch it happen and doing nothing to stop it. The UN has let genocide happen on its watch all over the world and done nothing, but that’s ok with you because the UN didn’t pull the trigger, right?
The truth hurts, Europe has a history of mistreating the Jewish people. That’s probably why the Jewish people didn’t want their new state in Europe.
We finns have had our share of genosides, tough this was inour civilwar and nothing to do with anything ethinical…But back in the 41-44 we really had something else on our mind that wheap over others when we were too busy to defend our own nation. Perhpas If you yeanks and british would had helped us we wouldn’t have to go under germanys arms…but you were too busy to help another genosider so what can you say…
The UN has let genocide happen on its watch all over the world and done nothing, but that’s ok with you because the UN didn’t pull the trigger, right?
It most certainly had…like the Pol Pot incidence that you mentioned…Funniest thing in that was that it was USA who suported Pol Pot in the UN and Soviets who were agaisnt him. It was only when soviet helped Vieatnamese kicked the red khmers out of power when someone did something…So when now USA just watches from the side when Israel is bombing civilian targets, one might say history is repeating itself…
GollevainenThank you Shiplover, indeed that was one the greatest ‘black spots’ that i had on my carrier list….Now, only thing that comes to my mind is the french proposal to the Indian new carrier bid, but guess that falls out of these 8,000 tonners….
GollevainenOccupation of what? They withdrew from Southern Lebanon, Gaza and part of the West Bank years ago. Do you want them to withdraw from their country as well? Will Finland take them in? How about any other country in Europe will the EU let the Jews in like they let the Muslims in and give them all kinds of benefits?
However I doubt the EU will take them in because Europe has a very long and nasty history of anti-semitism that goes back to the Middle Ages.
or You meaned the three jews we sended to Auswitch??? After serious investigation it was declared as accident that they were sended there at the first place……but then again, what does the antisemitism has anything to do whit this?? You are not implying that out of any other meaningfull arguments, you fall into the old zionists mishapp of accusing anyone israel critisor as antisemitist…..man thats so low that I doupt that even you would fall into that trap…sure you are clewer and inteligent guy above that :p
When the death toll reaches the millions then you can call it genocide. Like the millions that have died in Africa from famine and warfare and the UN just watches or the millions that died under Pol Pot or the millions that died in the concentration camps in Nazi Germany (Jew, Gypises, Slavs, Homosexuals other that didn’t fit in with the master race.) You remember Nazi Germany, Finland was their ally and used the Swastka on their tanks and planes.
Last time i checked the word genozide didn’t have any offical death roll tapped to its label in order to justificy it use. I find it pretty amusing and yet somewhat sad of you throwing out historical details out of its context (and out of sense as you but it “UN watching next to nazis slaughtering jews…” 😉 ) and use it to blur the issue into something more close to nonsense than actual depate…..
But You’ll have your own way….Im too tired to enter your flamebait this time…So you find someone else to whipe the foam out of your mouth… :diablo:
GollevainenOccupation of what? They withdrew from Southern Lebanon, Gaza and part of the West Bank years ago. Do you want them to withdraw from their country as well? Will Finland take them in? How about any other country in Europe will the EU let the Jews in like they let the Muslims in and give them all kinds of benefits?
However I doubt the EU will take them in because Europe has a very long and nasty history of anti-semitism that goes back to the Middle Ages.
or You meaned the three jews we sended to Auswitch??? After serious investigation it was declared as accident that they were sended there at the first place……but then again, what does the antisemitism has anything to do whit this?? You are not implying that out of any other meaningfull arguments, you fall into the old zionists mishapp of accusing anyone israel critisor as antisemitist…..man thats so low that I doupt that even you would fall into that trap…sure you are clewer and inteligent guy above that :p
When the death toll reaches the millions then you can call it genocide. Like the millions that have died in Africa from famine and warfare and the UN just watches or the millions that died under Pol Pot or the millions that died in the concentration camps in Nazi Germany (Jew, Gypises, Slavs, Homosexuals other that didn’t fit in with the master race.) You remember Nazi Germany, Finland was their ally and used the Swastka on their tanks and planes.
Last time i checked the word genozide didn’t have any offical death roll tapped to its label in order to justificy it use. I find it pretty amusing and yet somewhat sad of you throwing out historical details out of its context (and out of sense as you but it “UN watching next to nazis slaughtering jews…” 😉 ) and use it to blur the issue into something more close to nonsense than actual depate…..
But You’ll have your own way….Im too tired to enter your flamebait this time…So you find someone else to whipe the foam out of your mouth… :diablo:
GollevainenHow many more jumps in evolution will it take for humans to realise their fate in the future does not come from a book written way back in the past.
Amen for that. Nice to hear something good said in this thread for change….unlike some of the recent ones:
wow there’s quite a number of anti-israel sentiment.. some of which are coming from Americans even!
So are all americans obligated to believe blindly to what Israel tryes to hastly covers of their genoside of Lebanese as some sort of collective national duty?? Gee thank god Im not american… :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
What Israel is trying to do is to destroy Hezbollah’s military wing and help strengthen Lebanon’s central government so that they can actually appeal and help the Lebanese, instead of them relying on terrorist groups like Hezbollah
Yeah I had to said that im the number one admirer of this clewer and wise way of Israel to conduct this noble quest of theirs…laser guided bombs have in my humble obinion always been the best way to help and appeal to the hearths of the lebanese (and others) people….keep up the good work and if you would expand your attacks to all major lebanese cityes, Im sure that they will come crawling front of you and give their deepest thanks of your so generouse help….down from the depths of their hearts….. 😉
GollevainenHow many more jumps in evolution will it take for humans to realise their fate in the future does not come from a book written way back in the past.
Amen for that. Nice to hear something good said in this thread for change….unlike some of the recent ones:
wow there’s quite a number of anti-israel sentiment.. some of which are coming from Americans even!
So are all americans obligated to believe blindly to what Israel tryes to hastly covers of their genoside of Lebanese as some sort of collective national duty?? Gee thank god Im not american… :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
What Israel is trying to do is to destroy Hezbollah’s military wing and help strengthen Lebanon’s central government so that they can actually appeal and help the Lebanese, instead of them relying on terrorist groups like Hezbollah
Yeah I had to said that im the number one admirer of this clewer and wise way of Israel to conduct this noble quest of theirs…laser guided bombs have in my humble obinion always been the best way to help and appeal to the hearths of the lebanese (and others) people….keep up the good work and if you would expand your attacks to all major lebanese cityes, Im sure that they will come crawling front of you and give their deepest thanks of your so generouse help….down from the depths of their hearts….. 😉
GollevainenI have further Bremer Vulkan designs and will send them tomorrow if anybody is interested.
bring em on….
Wasen’t vulcan offering some 7,000 helo carrier to Thailand, but the deal was canceled in prefrence of Chacri Narubet?????
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