Ant.HThe Spit used in German propaganda during the BofB period was a PR.Mk.1 captured on the ground during the Battle of France. No Spitfire fighters were sent to France, but a handful of PR examples were. As far as I know, it wasn’t repainted after being captured and so appears in these propaganda newsreels in it’s genuine markings.
I suspect some Spit authority like Mark12 will be able to fill in the gaps.
Ant.HJudging by the shape and position of the aerial, and also the relatively thick-section shoulder mounted wing and inline engines, I’d say this is a Do17E. As far as I’m aware, the E model had been withdrawn from the front line by the time of Barbarossa, so perhaps the ‘Eastern Front’ connection is to do with the earlier Polish campaign?
Another thought is that the Yugoslavs built a number of Do17’s under licence, so perhaps this is a yugoslav example brought down during the Balkans camapign.Just a few of my thoughts.
Profile below taken from: http://avia-hobby.ru/mb/paint_2ger1.html
Ant.HIn addition to what’s already been said, I don’t think any Tempests had the footstep on the trailing edge of the wing. You can see the right foot of the chap standing on the wing is nestling in this step.
For my money it’s a Typhoon.
Ant.HI’m wondering if perhaps they might do the filming with the unmodified aircraft, and then do a bit of digital nipping and tucking to remove and modify whatever features they fancy. Sounds like a fiddly business, but perhaps a cheaper option than actually making any real mods??
Ant.HAbsolutely lovely, huge congratulations to all involved. I was on my way home at around 4pm thinking what a great day weather-wise it would be for 891’s first flight, and I log in and there it is! 😮
Ant.HRAF Newton?
Ant.HLovely pics, cheers Les. Whilst it’s not quite 100% authentic (fibre glass engine cowlings, props etc), they’ve done an absolutely amazing job with this aircraft considering the condition of the remains that were recovered.
There was some discussion on this forum about this airframe back in 2003…
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=16180&page=1&pp=30&highlight=P5436
And there’s an excellent online article here about the aircraft’s history and recovery…
http://www.airmuseum.ca/mag/0406.html
🙂
Ant.HFraid not Peter, no mention at all. What sort of condition is the Canadian example thought to be in? The listing does include major sections of three examples in Aus and one in the UK, so I’m presuming the Canadian example is pretty fragmentary?
Ant.HDeryck,
The very latest issue of Flypast has a listing of all surviving Lincolns. The example at Buenos Aires is B004, formerly RE351 with the RAF, although at the moment she’s apparently painted up as ‘B010’. She belongs to the national aeronautical museum.
Hope this clears things up. 🙂
Ant.HI’ve just been looking at the Courtesy Aircraft Sales website and it appears that Southern Cross has just been added to the listings.
http://www.courtesyaircraft.com/
No offence to Southern Cross, but if I had the money I think I’d have to make an offer on WG655, she’s an absolute stunner. Failing that, it would be nice to think she could be donated to the RNHF, and perhaps it would save on shipping costs if Eddie Kurdziel donated his Firefly at the same time…well, we can dream 😀
Ant.HI’m wondering if it might be a weight-saving measure related to the way the aircraft is/was moved. The whole airframe was lifted by crane onto the barge, and presumably the same would have to be done in reverse if it ever became necessary to bring her back onto dry land. I’d imagine it wouldn’t be an easy job installing/removing the engines when the aircraft was on the barge, so perhaps they’ve just left them out to make life easier.
Edited to add a link to airliners.net showing her being lowered onto the barge…
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0468165&WxsIERv=Nrebfcngvnyr-ONP%20Pbapbeqr%20102&Wm=0&WdsYXMg=Oevgvfu%20Nvejnlf&QtODMg=Arj%20Lbex%20-%20Wbua%20S.%20Xraarql%20Vagreangvbany%20%28Vqyrjvyq%29%20%28WSX%20%2F%20XWSX%29&ERDLTkt=HFN%20-%20Arj%20Lbex&ktODMp=Abirzore%2024%2C%202003&BP=0&WNEb25u=Wbr%20Ancbyv&xsIERvdWdsY=T-OBNQ&MgTUQtODMgKE=Pbapbeqr%20tybjvat%20va%20gur%20rneyl%20zbeavat%20fha%20ng%207%3A00nz%20nf%20gur%20penarf%20ortva%20gb%20ybjre%20vg%20bagb%20gur%20onetr.%20V%27yy%20zvff%20frrvat%20gur%20Pbapbeqr%20ng%20WSX.&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=21026&NEb25uZWxs=2003-12-06%2000%3A00%3A00&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=210&static=yes&width=1000&height=711&sok=JURER%20%20%28nvepensg_trarevp%20%3D%20%27Fhq-ONP%20Pbapbeqr%27%20BE%20nvepensg_trarevp%20%3D%20%27Nrebfcngvnyr-Oevgvfu%20Nrebfcnpr%20Pbapbeqr%27%20BE%20nvepensg_trarevp%20%3D%20%27Nrebfcngvnyr-ONP%20Pbapbeqr%27%29%20NAQ%20%28ert%20%3D%20%27T-OBNQ%27%29%20%20beqre%20ol%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=63&prev_id=0468654&next_id=0467026&size=L
…and another shot proving beyond all doubt that the engines are no longer there!
Ant.HThere are a number of other forum members whose knowledge of the Spitfire is far greater than mine, so I won’t say too much on the subject. All I would say is that from my point of view I have to disagree with Gnome, if you think about how widely the basic design was used both on land and at sea throughout the war years it becomes clear how indespensable it was to the allied war effort. It was a fighter, fighter-bomber, carrier-borne fighter/ fighter bomber, tactical recce platform, photo recce platform, high altitude interceptor, low level interceptor and even used for Air Sea Rescue work.
True, some other British and allied types could do one or two of the above, but not the whole lot using the same basic design. Things like the P47 and P51 were ofcourse also very versatile but they were not available from 1939 as the Spitfire was.
What’s more, it was always a wonderful fighter, never far behind and often ahead of the opposition’s latest offering. There can be very few designs that had so much development potential and operational effectiveness squeezed out of them.
Speaking in terms of the Spitfire’s effect on particular battles and episodes of the war, Damien has already made the point about Malta. Added to this, and this might not go down too well with the Hurri supporters, I find it hard to see how the Battle of Britain could’ve been won without Spitfires. The Hurricane did brilliantly and was available in numbers etc etc but that doesn’t make the Spit irrelevant or insignificant in the context of the BofB. North Africa was another area where the arrival of Spitfires had a major impact on the balance of air power in the region. Hurri’s and P40’s were about the only things available beforehand and they had a hell of a time trying to deal with the Axis fighters, especially the 109 F’s and G’s. A good idea of the Spitfire’s impact on the situation is given in The War Diaries of Neville Duke, who’d previously been tussling with the Luftwaffe in Tomahawks and Kittyhawks.
I didn’t mean to say too much, but it looks like I just have! 🙂
Ant.HI was watching a slightly daft but entertaining programme on Channel 4 last Sunday called Men In White. The three scientists who present the programme get various challenges each week and the challenge in last week’s show was to trick visitors to an old stately home in Wales into thinking the house was haunted. (I’m getting to a decent point, honest!)
One of the devices they used to spook the visitors was an infra-sound generator, infra sound being vibrations that are beyond the human ear’s hearing range but which can still make wine glasses sing, floorboards buzz and windows rattle. Various bits of machinary such as air conditioning units and industrial plant give off alot of infra sound. Rather than NEAM being haunted I’d suggest there’s some sort of equipment at the Nissan factory next door that’s generating infra sound, although infra sound can carry through the earth for miles so it could perhaps even be from something like the Tyne Tunnel (a supposedly haunted night-club in Liverpool was found to be affected by infra sound from the Mersey Tunnel). Infra sound disturbances from distant earth quakes have also been known to travel around the globe.
It’s also worth pointing out that the wooden fuselage pod of the SeaVenom would be a very good infra sound conductor.
Edited to add the link to Wikipedia:
Ant.HAs Damien says, the Americans blasted away at anything that looked even vaguely like military equipment and I remember seeing quite a few shots in the news at the time of Hunters being blown to bits with mini-guns and LGB’s. The phrase ‘sledgehammer to a tin tack’ comes to mind…
Ant.HI was thinking the same James, but unfortunately I don’t have anything that lists the crewman’s nationalities by birth, only thier service. Someone’s already mention Dinghy Young being born in the States, and ofcourse one of those listed as RCAF is the American Joe McCarthy.
Edited to add that the Dambusters.org site appears to list places of birth where known ,so it might be possible to piece together the nationalities by birth if you have the time and inclination.
Sign In
