As Page says, I was referring to the Valiant B2 having been ideal for the RAF’s needs. Sadly, at the time that the B2 was developed, the Air Ministry hadn’t quite grasped the future need for low-level bombing, so the magnificent B2 never progressed beyond the prototype stage. Of course, if the Government had been given the benefit of a crystal ball, they could have avoided the huge expense of financing three (four, in fact) V-Bomber types and simply adopted the Valiant B1, followed by the B2.
It was slightly ironic that the Victor was often hailed as the most advanced and the most capable of the three V-Bombers but it was also the least practical. It could carry a larger conventional bomb load than the Vulcan but having been designed to carry one (nuclear) bomb in the same way as the Vulcan, this was no advantage. The Victor was better suited to high altitude flying, but of course the RAF ultimately needed a low-level bomber, and the Victor’s wings were completely unsuited to this environment. Worse still, when Blue Steel was introduced, the Victor’s low-slung fuselage was far from ideal. The proposals to carry Skybolt under the Victor’s wings illustrated how impractical the aircraft was for anything other than high-level free-fall bombing.
By comparison, the Vulcan was more manoeuvrable than the Victor, far better suited to low-level operations (“boiler plate” could simply be slapped-on to the wings as necessary), and could be loaded with Blue Steel (or Skybolt, if it had progressed) far more easily. Ultimately, it proved to be far more versatile than the Victor.
But neither aircraft would have been necessary had the value of the Valiant B2 been identified sooner. Such are the advantages of hindsight! But then, if Britain had opted for the Valiant B2, we’d have never had the beautiful Victor or the mighty Vulcan. Imagine!
Personally I take my hat off to his engineering team, who constantly prevent him from looking completely incompetant; instead only slightly
Hear Hear!
PS, posting-up a word in large-point letters doesn’t make it any more convincing. It makes the poster look like an infant…
I agree. The Vulcan has our support because that’s the only option available to us. refusing to support the venture simply because one doesn’t agree with the way in which the project is being run would be rather like cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face.
We already know of Pleming’s record for allocating donations directly into his own “expenses” (ie his pocket) but the Farnborough saga sounds like another classic example of waste. Given that the Vulcan was already there (and paid for), one would assume that the team would be capable of standing next to the aircraft without paying for “hospitality” for heaven’s sake. What is Pleming suggesting? That potential sponsors needed to be “wined and dined” in order to part with their money? Surely, if they had any interest in supporting the venture, they wouldn’t expect so much as a bag of crisps.
Much as we all support the Vulcan, the team who runs the project don’t command much respect at all – which is hardly surprising.
From Pleming:-
The Trust’s hospitality presence at Farnborough this year, while pricey, has produced a number of new and significant corporate sponsorship and philanthropy leads, which we are of course continuing to pursue as vigorously as possible, but it is currently impossible to foretell whether any of these will prove fruitful before we finally run out of money
So let’s get this straight, they paid a load of cash (your cash) to have a hospitality stand? Why the hell didn’t they ask for a freebie? It would have cost Farnborough nothing and surely they could have “shamed” them into giving them some space for free? How shabby would Farnborough have looked if they’d been accused of taking money from such a worthy cause?
Oh dear… they just paid-up… and for what? The above comments suggest that in actual fact they got nothing out of the exercise other than more promises of support which never materialised.
Anyone would think that Pleming and his cronies had spent another load of other people’s dosh on a nice little junket. Much as I love the ol’ Vulcan, Pleming and his cronies really do annoy me. Just how much more are they going to milk out of this?
As I said previously, I’d be inclined to think that there was no technical reason for the choice of colour, it was probably just whatever happened to be available at the time. Quite a lot of the Vulcan’s design and manufacturing process involved spur-of-the moment decisions which didn’t rely on technical analysis.
Just as an example, on the Vulcan B2, the first flights resulted in overheated actuators for the “flaperons.” Investigation revealed that although the actuator housing had an in intake to allow cooling air in, there was no exhaust for the hot air to escape, hence the problem. Solution? A member of the design team went out with a hack saw and simply chopped-off the end of the fairing. Chadwick did similar things with other parts of the aircraft, particularly in the cockpit.
So even though it sounds unlikely, I would guess that there was no real reason for the choice of black for the gear legs. Probably just seemed appropriate at the time.
Aircraft were painted silver and then white to offer a degree of protection from radiation and heat. The concept was dropped when high-level bombing was abandoned.
I’d be inclined to think that the clue to the reason behind the landing gear’s colour lays in the comment above regarding Lancasters being the same. Avro probably just felt it was the most appropriate colour and probably specified it because they’d simply used it before. Sounds flippant but some of the Vulcan’s development really did happen that way. Not everything was based on technical research!
Valiant fans will be delighted to know that Airfix will be releasing a 72nd scale kit of the aircraft very shortly. Nice to see the mighty beast properly captured in model form at long last.
It’s true that the Valiant’s career ended prematurely because of the wing spar problems but it’s worth bearing in mind that the reason why they were not simply repaired was because the aircraft wasn’t planned to remain in service much longer in any case. It was always regarded as a first-generation V-Bomber and with the Vulcan and Victor Mk.2 becoming available, the expense of refurbishing the Valiants didn’t seem appropriate.
The real tragedy was that the Valiant’s versatility and the need for low level operations wasn’t identified sooner. If it had been, the Government could have saved a fortune and abandoned both the Vulcan and Victor, and purchased the Valiant Mk.2 which would have been ideal for the RAF’s needs. But hindsight is a wonderful thing!
Short? For a Vulcan? Nooo!
I’m amused to see that they’ve finally hired a PR company. It’s history repeating itself again, as some of us kept banging-on about this years ago. They finally got a PR company and they were absolutely useless. Let’s hope the new one does rather better.
It was made clear all along that the aircraft would only be a viable flying exhibit for a few years – ten years at most, but that always sounded overly optimistic. The bit that makes me giggle is this notion that the aircraft will then be turned into some sort of educational exhibit. Yeah right. At this stage it’s hard to know where 558 will go when the flying stops. Duxford was supposed to be the final destination but that seems unlikely when they already have a Vulcan. At best, it would mean 558 languishing outside until Duxford got bored with it. Maybe the folks at Bruntingthorpe might take it? Or Coventry?
Good to see the Good Doctor is back to his old routine of issuing last-chance pleas for money. How come he’s still there? He was supposed to be stepping-down about a year ago wasn’t he?
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Italian Harrier John? Do explain… is it Decimomannu?
Just because it was lucrative and successful doesn’t mean it was good television
Actually, by definition it does! It was very good television. You simply happened not to like it.
Just because it was lucrative and successful doesn’t mean it was good television
Actually, by definition it does! It was very good television. You simply happened not to like it.
I should add that although a (small) proportion of the population seems to have truly hated Big Brother (even though most never even watched it), a much larger proportion enjoyed it very much. Inexplicably, those who disliked it seem to have spent a disproportional amount of time complaining about it.
Big Brother was by far the most successful and lucrative show ever screened on Channel 4. It was hugely popular and was still very popular when it ended, even though the media continually tried to imply that it wasn’t. The viewing figures continually contradicted the endless whining in the newspapers from sneering (and often idiotic) commentators who had never watched more than a few minutes of the show, and foolishly believed that they would be perceived as being somehow more intelligent and “right on” if they criticised the show. Of course they merely looked like fools, sneering in the face of what became almost a national obsession. Frankly, many of the media’s commentators should be truly ashamed of themselves for the inaccurate garbage that they have spewed-out over the years on this subject, simply in a rather lazy attempt to portray themselves as being somehow “informed” when they effectively illustrated that they actually hadn’t got a clue,
Of course, the irony of this “I don’t watch Big Brother so I must be Intelligent” attitude is that a surprisingly large number of very bright individuals freely admitted that they were Big Brother fans. Stephen Fry, Brian Sewell, Clive James, Kathy Burke and many others over the years have expressed their fascination for the show. While the idiotic sneering fools try to portray themselves as somehow brighter than the rest of us simply because they presumably watch more “worthy” television shows, an astonishing number of very bright, intelligent and articulate people have been glued to Big Brother, having understood the show for what it is, rather than what the media pretend it is.
It’s far too easy to scoff. We all know that the show comprises of watching a bunch of idiots doing very little. What point is there in continually saying this year after year, as if it’s some sort of revelation? We all know – that’s the whole point of the show. The very point of the show is that it is fascinating tosimply watch how people behave. That’s all there is to it really. Clearly, some people cannot enjoy such a simple format and need structure or fantasy or some other stimulation to capture their attention. But for so many of us there was a delight to be found in simply watching the bizarre ways in which people interact with each other, marvelling and the often-hilarious things that people say and do. It’s a simple pleasure but it would be foolish to imagine that those who derive enjoyment from it are also simple…
As for Davina McCall, I think there’s a generational issue here, indeed it was discussed on television recently. The affection for Davina that so many of us share comes from her history. She first appeared on television when MTV began broadcasting in the UK. She became a familiar face on our screens every day and many of us “grew up” with her as she moved-on to other shows such as Gods Gift, Streetmate and others. I can understand how those who were not part of the “MTV generation” might fail to understand the attractions of Miss McCall, but you have to understand that for so many of us, she’s been a seminal part of our relationship with television.
Okay, I accept that we all have different tastes, but please don’t jump on the anti-Big Brother bandwagon. It’s far too easy to do and this silly sneering attitude simply flies in the face of the evidence of the past ten years. Like it or not, Big Brother has been a pivotal point in television history. It has had a far-reaching effect on television in many ways (admittedly not always for the better) and its influence cannot be underestimated. Channel 5 are still negotiating a purchase of the show and who could blame them? As has been said, it would become Channel 5’s flagship show, drawing-in their biggest-ever audiences. Many commentators have already pointed-out that Channel 4 are probably already regretting their decision to pull-out. Okay, Endemol were demanding a hefty price, but there’s no doubt that Channel 4’s viewing figures will inevitably slump without the show – it was their biggest achievement. Feature films (as if we need any more) and drama like England 86 (which was utter garbage from the minute it began) is no way to replace a huge show like Big brother.
Like so many people, I’m genuinely depressed by the television choices that are now available to me, with Big Brother gone. I mean, what the hell is on television at present that is worth watching? I have no interest in tedious dramas, nor do I have any desire to watch John Nettles solve another murder (how many has he tackled now? He must deserve sainthood?). I don’t have any interest in the carefully-staged “spontaneous” drama of wannabe pop stars being chosen for their three minutes of fame, and given the quality of the movies on offer (“trash” hardly describes what was on the box last night), I might as well send the television back to the retailer – which (oddly enough) is precisely what I said on Friday night when Big Brother ended!
I know that those of you in the “anti” brigade will have no idea of where I’m coming-from but for a lot of us, Friday night was very, very sad. It marked the end of more than ten years of sheer enjoyment for so many of us and although some people will have no idea why, a lot of us really are saddened by the show’s departure. Even if it returns, it will probably never be quite the same again. It was calculated that those of us who watched every nightly show must have sat-though more than a thousand hours of television over the years. Do I regret that? Nope – I loved every minute of it!
I should add that although a (small) proportion of the population seems to have truly hated Big Brother (even though most never even watched it), a much larger proportion enjoyed it very much. Inexplicably, those who disliked it seem to have spent a disproportional amount of time complaining about it.
Big Brother was by far the most successful and lucrative show ever screened on Channel 4. It was hugely popular and was still very popular when it ended, even though the media continually tried to imply that it wasn’t. The viewing figures continually contradicted the endless whining in the newspapers from sneering (and often idiotic) commentators who had never watched more than a few minutes of the show, and foolishly believed that they would be perceived as being somehow more intelligent and “right on” if they criticised the show. Of course they merely looked like fools, sneering in the face of what became almost a national obsession. Frankly, many of the media’s commentators should be truly ashamed of themselves for the inaccurate garbage that they have spewed-out over the years on this subject, simply in a rather lazy attempt to portray themselves as being somehow “informed” when they effectively illustrated that they actually hadn’t got a clue,
Of course, the irony of this “I don’t watch Big Brother so I must be Intelligent” attitude is that a surprisingly large number of very bright individuals freely admitted that they were Big Brother fans. Stephen Fry, Brian Sewell, Clive James, Kathy Burke and many others over the years have expressed their fascination for the show. While the idiotic sneering fools try to portray themselves as somehow brighter than the rest of us simply because they presumably watch more “worthy” television shows, an astonishing number of very bright, intelligent and articulate people have been glued to Big Brother, having understood the show for what it is, rather than what the media pretend it is.
It’s far too easy to scoff. We all know that the show comprises of watching a bunch of idiots doing very little. What point is there in continually saying this year after year, as if it’s some sort of revelation? We all know – that’s the whole point of the show. The very point of the show is that it is fascinating tosimply watch how people behave. That’s all there is to it really. Clearly, some people cannot enjoy such a simple format and need structure or fantasy or some other stimulation to capture their attention. But for so many of us there was a delight to be found in simply watching the bizarre ways in which people interact with each other, marvelling and the often-hilarious things that people say and do. It’s a simple pleasure but it would be foolish to imagine that those who derive enjoyment from it are also simple…
As for Davina McCall, I think there’s a generational issue here, indeed it was discussed on television recently. The affection for Davina that so many of us share comes from her history. She first appeared on television when MTV began broadcasting in the UK. She became a familiar face on our screens every day and many of us “grew up” with her as she moved-on to other shows such as Gods Gift, Streetmate and others. I can understand how those who were not part of the “MTV generation” might fail to understand the attractions of Miss McCall, but you have to understand that for so many of us, she’s been a seminal part of our relationship with television.
Okay, I accept that we all have different tastes, but please don’t jump on the anti-Big Brother bandwagon. It’s far too easy to do and this silly sneering attitude simply flies in the face of the evidence of the past ten years. Like it or not, Big Brother has been a pivotal point in television history. It has had a far-reaching effect on television in many ways (admittedly not always for the better) and its influence cannot be underestimated. Channel 5 are still negotiating a purchase of the show and who could blame them? As has been said, it would become Channel 5’s flagship show, drawing-in their biggest-ever audiences. Many commentators have already pointed-out that Channel 4 are probably already regretting their decision to pull-out. Okay, Endemol were demanding a hefty price, but there’s no doubt that Channel 4’s viewing figures will inevitably slump without the show – it was their biggest achievement. Feature films (as if we need any more) and drama like England 86 (which was utter garbage from the minute it began) is no way to replace a huge show like Big brother.
Like so many people, I’m genuinely depressed by the television choices that are now available to me, with Big Brother gone. I mean, what the hell is on television at present that is worth watching? I have no interest in tedious dramas, nor do I have any desire to watch John Nettles solve another murder (how many has he tackled now? He must deserve sainthood?). I don’t have any interest in the carefully-staged “spontaneous” drama of wannabe pop stars being chosen for their three minutes of fame, and given the quality of the movies on offer (“trash” hardly describes what was on the box last night), I might as well send the television back to the retailer – which (oddly enough) is precisely what I said on Friday night when Big Brother ended!
I know that those of you in the “anti” brigade will have no idea of where I’m coming-from but for a lot of us, Friday night was very, very sad. It marked the end of more than ten years of sheer enjoyment for so many of us and although some people will have no idea why, a lot of us really are saddened by the show’s departure. Even if it returns, it will probably never be quite the same again. It was calculated that those of us who watched every nightly show must have sat-though more than a thousand hours of television over the years. Do I regret that? Nope – I loved every minute of it!
Would the Harriers have been able to stop them?
The very idea of Vulcans being used against the Falklands by Argentina is comical. Even their Canberras were “sitting ducks” … imagine a Vulcan?!:p