ChoxI’d agree entirely – I think there would be quite a lot of interest in an opportunity to look around such places without the non-aviation fraternity getting in the way, making a noise, and generally being annoying – that would be worth paying for! Problem is of course, you’d have to suffer the gaggles of anoraks instead… you can’t win!
I fondly remember the sheer pleasure of walking around Hendon one night, entirely on my own… you could hear a pin drop… bliss!:D
Choxbut I am sure if the crews can make it happen within their aircraft’s limitations they will
I’d like to think so, but evidently they won’t be given the opportunity! All very well to quote performance figures but we all know an empty Nimrod could get into Cosford perfectly well. We’ve been here before with the Victor which could have landed there, but had to be dismantled at Shawbury. Everything’s risk-assessed these days… ’tis a miracle that these people even let the poor ol’ Nimrod get airborne in the first place!
As for kids in museums, I’ve no objection to that. If I thought for one minute that anyone was there to either learn something or even just enjoy themselves then I’d be all in favour of it, but judging from my experience last time I visited Cosford, it was a group of bored youngsters (think they must have been cub scouts or something) looking for something more fun to do, combined with the usual random kids running up and down screaming, and generally using the place as a playground. It stinks. You can’t blame the kids, I just marvel at how the parents drag them along for “something to do” which basically just makes the visit miserable for everyone else. Then again you can’t blame the parents either when the facility is patently geared towards “entertaining the family”. I just liked the days when a museum was simply that, and wasn’t obliged to sacrifice everything in order to get as many people through the doors as possible. I don’t imagine for one minute that even one percent of the youngsters running round Cosford have even the slightest interest in aircraft.
Funniest (saddest?) one was when I was trying to photograph the underside of the Wessex. Some nasty little kid comes up with his mother, sees me, and says “I wish the barriers were higher”. I was so tempted to reply “and I wish you’d been turned away at the gates”… but there you go, I can only dream 😀
ChoxRe- Cosford, I don’t know what the real reason is behind the destruction/removal of the external exhibits. but I wouldn’t be surprised if there had been some agreement to clear the area so that we can presumably marvel at the architectural splendour of the Cold War Museum. I don’t imagine for a minute that any of the people who raked-in money to plan and build the facility, ever stopped to consider that the people who had any real interest in the exhibits wouldn’t care if the building had been a simple, rectangular shed – a hangar in fact. Far better to waste money on committees, architects, and fancy “fluff” than concentrate on the actual aircraft.
One imagines that, as with the Nimrod/runway saga, the Health & Safety Mafia probably felt that the external exhibits were also a danger. But it’s indicative of the way that so many modern museum facilities operate. The exhibits take second place to the perceived entertainment value of the museum, so it evidently doesn’t interest the management team if a few random airliners get the chop, as long as they get the visitor figures to justify their jobs. Far better (in their view) to have groups of giggling kids running about the place looking for something to play with, rather than catering for the people who actually want to be there.
We all know that a Nimrod could land at Cosford perfectly safely, but the rules and safety rubbish is a good excuse to justify yet more people’s jobs, and waste more money. There probably isn’t even much of an appetite to accept a Nimrod, now the main buildings are full. Presumably they don’t want to start littering the outside area with annoying, troublesome aeroplanes again?!
ChoxStrange kind of viewpoint – refuse a Nimrod so that they can concentrate on a Beaufighter? Brilliant if you have any interest in Beaufighters, absurd if you don’t!
ChoxI’m also inclined to wonder why – if the Victor is being re-painted, it can’t be finished in camouflage – it would look magnificent! I guess it might well be because somebody’s already found a stock of Hemp paint?!
ChoxOh indeed, we’re talking about a complete withdrawal in a couple of weeks. It’s Jaguar all over again – just dump the entire fleet, save money, and just hope that a replacement aircraft isn’t needed for a while. I guess in all honesty it’s fair to say that the MoD can afford to manage without Nimrod for a while though, even though it’s a shabby trick, but given the situation they’re in, it’s understandable.
It seems possible that at least one aircraft might go to 51 Squadron to be used for continuation training though, as it would seem like a logical thing to do, and then the question is precisely when their aircraft are withdrawn. Should be in about a year’s time, but when a replacement system still seems to be without any firm introduction date, maybe the Nimrod’s OSD might drift for some time. Obviously, there’s always the possibility that the MoD might pull the same trick and withdraw 51 Squadron’s aircraft even before a replacement is in service, but given their importance for current operations, I would think it very unlikely.
ChoxDoes anyone know more about the airfield’s RAF history? Be interesting to know more about those days.
ChoxSadsack, the MRA4’s are still destined to enter RAF service, but it’s anybody’s guess when this will actually be, despite the official dates which get thrown about. The first one was scheduled to go to Boscombe Down quite a long (long!) time ago, and that the aircraft will enter service towards the end of 2011 at a rough estimate – unless there are any new difficulties. Whether they’ll ever go to Kinloss though is another question open for debate, and much will depend on the outcome of the infamous Defence Review which will presumably take place in June. We might know more for certain then – or then again we might not!
But then, a Nimrod MRA4 sure ain’t no Nimrod! You have to marvel at the absurdity of building a new aircraft around an ancient fuselage!
ChoxDid somebody hear something… no…? ok must have imagined it
I don’t even know what that is supposed to mean
ChoxThe news concerning Carlisle was reported on UKAR, so please don’t assume that I was making it up. It might be hearsay on their part of course but whether there’s any real risk to their Vulcan or not, it illustrates what I was getting-at. It is there if you really want to look for it. As for canvassing museums, I suggest you do that yourself if you’re keen to establish the status of every surviving Vulcan, although I’m not quite sure what it would achieve. I’m sure that all (apart perhaps from Carlisle’s) would be reported as secure? But then I’m sure the same was once said about the Vulcans at Cardiff, Cosford, Blackpool, Finningley, Scampton, Gibraltar… For heaven’s sake, the aviation press ran stories about how the Blackpool Vulcan was going to fly, once upon a time – and now it’s nothing more than scrap metal. Surprising how situations change given enough time.
I’m sure you get my point, in fact I thought I’d made it pretty clearly in the first place! I was merely stating that despite the notion that we still have a healthy collection of surviving Vulcans, the total does continue to dwindle, almost without anyone noticing. It must follow that the trend will continue, unless you think that we’ve miraculously reached the “bottom of the curve” in terms of losses. I’d like to think we have, if 603 is to be the last victim, but history suggests that it probably will not be.
ChoxWell, before the insults started flying my way, I was going to say that when this story first started, the folks at Bruntingthorpe were (according to Woodford) proposing to transport the entire aircraft over there – although nobody ever worked-out where they were going to get the money from. Shame it never happened, though it never did seem very plausible.
Anyway, going back to the accusations that I’m talking rubbish and that all the other preserved Vulcans are somehow miraculously secure, might I draw everyone’s attention to the news which happens to have emerged today which claims that the museum collection at Carlisle is now in a difficult situation… which kinda emphasises what I was saying about how a seemingly secure and large number of preserved Vulcans is gradually dwindling. It’s just that every time another one bites the dust, everyone shrugs their shoulders and says “oh well, it’s shame, but there are plenty more.” Trouble is, if the trend continues for long enough, there won’t be.
ChoxBlue, I agree entirely. It’s absurd that the most historically-important Vulcan left is the one which is being overlooked. It’s probably only a matter of time before someone arrives at Waddington who decides that it’s inappropriate… or maybe a Health & Safety risk…
ChoxOkay Arthur, have your little moan about me if it makes you happy (*Lets leave the insults for the playground please*). Nit-picking over Woodford’s management is just childish. Everyone knows that most of the staff from the days of the Shackleton, Vulcan, Victor and Nimrod went long ago, and in came Hatfield people. You only need to talk to the guys in the Heritage Centre to establish how things have changed so depressingly.
Nobody has forgotten how much support BAE has given to XH558. Point is, this has nothing to do with Woodford’s treatment of 603. And in any case, to be brutally honest, BAE’s “support” of 558 is nothing to crow about. If they were so keen to support it, they could have financed the restoration programme themselves – they’re hardly short of a few bob.
As for 603 being left in state, well Arthur “gathers” wrongly. The only reason it ended-up this way is because BAE prevented the restoration team from working on it. Having brought the aircraft up to a good standard (they even ran heating through it), BAE decided that the aircraft didn’t fit-in with their homogenised view of Woodford’s image, and so the Vulcan was suddenly out-of-bounds because it was supposedly unsafe. In actual fact it was perfectly safe, it was just that their self-imposed rules didn’t allow retired employees to clamber over a relic on their property.
Simply stating the total number of preserved Vulcans totally misses the point I made about seemingly insignificant one-off disposals. The Vulcan in the Wales Museum was a one-off, so was Blackpool, and Finningley, and Scampton… Presumably Arthur will still be saying “not bad” when the list of surviving Vulcans gets down to half a dozen?
Anyway, enough of his silly sniping. I take your point Hurn about focusing on the positive, but I guess this is a typically British attitude. Accepting a bad situation and stoically making the best of things is what people tend to do. Problem is, it’s also the very reason why such sad events occur because ultimately nobody has the guts to say what needs to be said – part of the British condition I suppose!
ChoxIndeed… and presumably the vigorous testing comprised of two guys stooging around in the sky for a while, until they decided that black was the best colour. Brilliant. Of course there is no perfect paint scheme, it’s claptrap. You need a different paint scheme for every lighting and weather variation, so you may as well forget about such things and just pick a paint scheme that looks nice.
Unfortunately, to use an old fashion cliche, black has become the new grey. Having painted one aircraft black (wasn’t the Hawk the first victim?), everything has been obliged to follow. Particularly comical is the way that even police and civil helicopters are now faithfully reproducing the standard black/yellow chopper paint scheme. What’s wrong with these people? Are they so lacking in imagination that they have to follow a trend? Or do they think that if they copy the paint scheme they can pretend they’re flying a military helicopter?
Oh well, one thing history tells us is that these colour scheme fads wear-off sooner or later, so black (and grey for the combat aircraft) will doubtless disappear one day in favour of some other “perfect solution” – can’t wait!
ChoxI agree entirely. If the Tucano really must be tarted-up like a circus clown every year (heaven knows why) then at least make it a paint scheme which has some sort of relevance. The silver/yellow or grey/dayglow paint schemes would at least provide an interesting insight into how the Tucano would have looked if the RAF hadn’t changed it’s paint scheme specifications (again), whereas the concept of dressing-up a Tucano to look like a Spitfire seems just, er… daft! Based on that kind of logic, you may as well paint-up a 29 squadron Typhoon to look like a Siskin. Actually forget I said that just in case some twerp think’s it’s a good idea!
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