TSR2 was primarily designed to carry a nuclear weapon most certainly (Red Beard and WE.177) but it was never intended to be part of Britain’s nuclear deterrent as such – it was a tactical aircraft. The deterrent rested with the RAF’s V-Force until responsibility was handed to the Navy’s Polaris fleet.
As to why the prototypes were painted anti-flash white, that indeed remains a mystery. There’s never been any explanation as to why the scheme was adopted by BAC and it wouldn’t have been applied to production aircraft, indeed a paint scheme drawing was issued for production machines which (not surprisingly) showed standard grey/green disruptive camouflage and white undersides (which would of course have been switched to Light Aircraft Grey in due course). Best guess is that the white scheme was simply copied from the short-lived white scheme applied to some FAA Buccaneer S1’s. There may have been some pseudo-political motive, perhaps to illustrate (to interested parties) that the aircraft was nuclear-capable. Britain’s aerospace industry was pretty good at this type of showmanship back then – one recalls the prototype Lightnings all of which wore roundels of varying sizes so that Soviet intelligence experts couldn’t determine the aircraft’s size and – therefore – its predicted performance.
I don’t recall WW3 breaking out – do you?
TSR2 wasn’t a planned part of our strategic nuclear deterrent and was never intended to be.
I think that her role as a supersonic bomber, would have meant a lesser order for tonkas and jaguars
You can go round in circles speculating what might have happened. Certainly, the Tornado would doubtless have never happened – it wouldn’t have been necessary. The Jaguar might still have appeared though, not least because of its political roots. The Buccaneer would have stayed with the Navy and the Vulcan fleet would have been withdrawn sooner. The TSR2’s presence would have created a very different manufacturing and political climate so it’s impossible to judge what decisions might have been made. Even the Phantom’s purchase (primarily for the FAA) is open to question – given the cost of TSR2.
Likewise, it’s impossible to make an accurate guess as to what would have replaced the TSR2. Clearly, it would have been retired by now, but without the legacy of the Tornado, it’s impossible to judge whether Britain would have had the resources to design an indigenous replacement. It seems logical that an American purchase would have been made – possibly the F-15E.
In some respects the loss of the TSR2 wasn’t a disaster as some like to imagine. The RAF got the Buccaneer which was, by any standards, a brilliant aircraft. Okay, the TSR2 had great potential but as has been said many times before, the Buccaneer with the right equipment was just as suitable for the RAF’s requirements – perhaps even more so – and certainly cheaper.
Given that TSR2 would now be gone in any case, my best guess is that if it had entered service, we would now have a fleet of F-15E’s. The Phantom would never have been ordered (I suspect the carriers would simply have been dumped as being unaffordable) and we might well have purchased F-15A’s to ultimately replace the Lightnings.
Naturally, the practicality of resurrecting the TSR2 wasn’t based on whether the aircraft happened to “look nice” or not. Clearly, if there was any real will to re-start the project, it could have been done, regardless of destroyed jigs or anything else (there’s nothing which couldn’t have been re-created if necessary). Point is, there would have been no advantage in re-creating the aircraft once aircraft such as the F-111 had been produced, as it would always be far cheaper to opt for an “off the shelf” purchase, re-equipped to suit our needs. By the time that we had the F-111, Buccaneer and Tornado and eventually the F-15E) the TSR2’s capabilities were well and truly redundant. It’s nice to look at TSR2 through rose-tinted specs but the project was undoubtedly dead from the moment that the prototype was grounded and never had any practical potential for resurrection.
Exactly Rob! Unfortunately, it’s become almost traditional for commentators (especially authors) to wax lyrical about those days (and particularly TSR2) as if the abandonment of so many projects was simply an act of political spite. The reality was that we just didn’t have the money to carry-on in the same way and even if TSR2 had survived, it’s certain that some other major project/s would have suffered a similar fate at a later date. It’s just rather sad that the poor ol’ TSR2 was the project which happened to be the most expensive and complex programme at that time; a classic case of the right aircraft at the wrong time.
WP840 – I guess the straight answer is that it was always possible to re-start the TSR2 programme and still is. It’s just a question of making the judgement as to when it becomes too expensive to contemplate in relation to the function which the aircraft performs. In the TSR2’s case that judgement was made shortly after the prototype flew! If you take the cost of the programme out of the equation, then I guess the TSR2 would still be a suitable platform even today if someone had the will (and money) to re-start it, but seen as we have a pretty decent fleet of Tornados…
Regardless of the pros and cons of the TSR2 story, one certainty is that even if the aircraft had been purchased, it would have been retired by now. As to what would have replaced it is anybody’s guess, as the way in which multi-national collaboration has developed would have doubtless been influenced by Britain’s design and manufacturing status, had the TSR2 survived. I suppose the best guess is that even with TSR2 we would still have ultimately opted for an aircraft which was very similar to the Tornado. It’s possible that with TSR2 there might have been less of an appetite for joint European projects though, so I guess it’s possible that we might have opted for an “off the shelf” purchase of F-15E’s a few years ago. Either way, I would think that given Britain’s industrial and economic history, we certainly wouldn’t have been in any position to develop another aircraft like the TSR2 on our own.
Sweet!
Looks like nobody has any shots of Strubby in the good ol’ days… shame!
Brilliant! A photo at last! Thanks for that.
Think the confusion is because Revell did re-issue either the old Matchbox kit or an even older Revell moulding, and this has led lots of people to steer clear, but if you find the more recent Revell 72nd F-101B (actually I checked and the plastic is stamped “1991” so it’s not that new!) it’s a great kit – accurate and nicely detailed. Think the key is to check what’s in the box before you buy it!
anyone have any suggested model kits of the Voodoo?
As mentioned above, Monogram produced a fairly nice 48th scale kit of the F-101B but you’d need the (Koster) vacform conversion kit to create a single-seater. Another company (C&H) produce a resin single-seat conversion set too which is still available although I believe the quality isn’t fantastic. The Monogram kit can still be found and it’s also available in a Revell re-box issue I seem to recall. Overall accuracy is good but it has a lot of ugly raised panel line detail which is best removed.
In 72nd scale Revell produce a beautiful F-101B which is nicely detailed, accurate, and features really nice engraved panel line detail. You can convert it into a single seater if you get hold of the old (and pretty awful) Hasegawa RF-101 kit and use the engine exhausts and parts of the cockpit fairing, canopy, etc on the Revell kit. You still need to do a bit of surgery (to extend the engine fairing ahead of the exhaust cans, extend the keel and add the gun port fairings, etc.) but it’s fairly easy to do and the Revell kit is a beauty. I’m building one at present oddly enough!
Yes, that’s the aircraft but I was referring to the in-service grey scheme she wore prior to going grey/green. Great photos though – shame I didn’t see them a couple of weeks ago as I could have included a couple in my book but it’s finished now. I never quite worked-out why they repainted 458 in grey at Cranfield but then I’ve never quite understood why she now wears markings that the aircraft never carried in service. Still, I guess she looks pretty at least! I did finally get hold of a lovely in-flight shot of 458 in the grey scheme courtesy of a very able photographer – who happens to have an almost indecent collection of brilliant Lightning photos!
Would love to see a shot of one of the Mosquitos! Interesting to hear that there was more than one machine finished in the silver/dayglow scheme!
As for the Meteors, although some of them did get grey paint before retirement, I’ve never seen any Vampires in similar colours so I assume that they all remained silver with dayglow trim until withdrawal. As far as I know, the only Vampires that received any grey paint were the CATCS machines? That’s excluding a certain well-known CFS machine of course!
Not really – Channel 4 gets a huge amount of income from Endemol’s Big Brother screening, and without it they’d be hard pressed to finance other less-mainstream programmes. The problem seems to be that the current crop of executives just don’t seem to have grasped that aviation is a very popular subject. I suspect the reason why it is largely ignored is because of all the “post-Baxter” television which has mostly been complete rubbish, and has consequently failed to attract a good audience. As a result, the subject is perceived as being dull, even though it’s the production standards that have been at fault – not the subject itself.
That’s the same story I’ve always heard. The Mk.4 disappeared because it was heavier and had worn-out more quickly, so it reached a stage where only CATCS and 1TWU operated the aircraft while the Mk.3 remained active with the Flying Training Schools.
To quote the great John Cleese:-
I may not know much about art, but I know what I like😀