Hot air indeed! I give up – there’s nothing else I can add to my comments. If some people think Im talking nonsense that’s fine, but I find it remarkable that both David Walton and TVOC have thought along the same lines, and yet nobody accuses them of being crazy. But then what do I know?! Anyway, I ain’t arguing over this forever as it changes nothing really. I’ll wait for someone to suggest a more viable alternative for 558’s future… could be in for a very long wait judging by what I’ve read so far!

It is true. The Shackleton would have been brought back to Coventry and flown had it not been for the CAA making it practically impossible to do. The aircraft didn’t go to the States with the intention of finding a permanent home there, so it bears no relation to the Vulcan project at all, which is why I marvel at the way in which people try and use it as some sort of comparison – there isn’t any comparison in any way. It was a different aircraft in different circumstances.

It’s a big assumption to believe that the Americans should be fascinated in the Vulcan when they are struggling to keep a lot of their own large warbirds
flying.

Indeed it is – but who is making that assumption? I certainly haven’t if you read what I’ve actually said in previous posts!

Well if we’re talking about what we think will happen, rather than what we might like to happen, then my prediction (for what it’s worth) is that the aircraft will fly again, probably appearing at a few shows this year. My hunch is that the money will then finally run-out and by the end of the show season (probably sooner) it will be grounded again. I suspect that we’ll then have to endure another few weeks of begging for donations before TVOC finally throw-in the towel. My guess is that the aircraft will then be picked-over by various interested parties, ultimately being adopted by a bunch of enthusiasts who will endeavour to keep the aircraft in running condition.

I suspect it will also remain at Bruntingthorpe but that David Walton will reluctantly have to return the hangar to more lucrative projects. Thus, I fear the aircraft will then remain amongst the other assembled “runnable” Cold War jets at Bruntingthorpe, making occasional runs until the Health & Safety Executive make it financially impossible to allow members of the public to attend such events. At that stage, it will become a non-running exhibit and join all the other Vulcan museum pieces withstanding (with varying degrees of success) the British climate.

Not a particularly encouraging forecast I admit, but I really can’t see any other outcome at the moment, based on the evidence that is before us.

Peter I have nothing to drop – people keep throwing comments back at me so I merely provide a reply. As I keep saying, if anyone seriously wants to discuss any of the points I’ve raised, just read through the Pprune thread as it’s all been said there time and time again.

I get the feeling people are deliberately misinterpreting what I’ve said. For example, I didn’t say that any of the achievements regarding the restoration of 655 and 426 are in any way “non-achievements” did I? If you read what I said, I merely pointed-out that spending millions of pounds to get an aircraft (ie 558) into taxy condition is no achievement at all – and it isn’t! It would be a monumental waste of money.

As with the Pprune thread, there’s nothing can add. I’ve explained my view and while some agree, it seems that others want to convince themselves that I’m talking nonsense. That’s fine, but as I keep saying, it’s rather ironic that there hasn’t been so much as one alternative idea expressed on Pprune or here…

Anyway, no hard feelings – here’s one of my happy snaps to remind us of better days…

We’re just re-covering old ground. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve explained my points on Pprune and on here, so the easiest thing is to re-read the posts if you seriously want any answers. I’ve already said repeatedly that there’s no guarantee that anyone in the US would provide funding but so what? Nobody is providing funding here either, so why not at least try?! The point is that the flexibility to get the aircraft flying again is much better in the US, whereas once it’s grounded here, you can be sure it won’t be allowed to fly again. It’s that simple. Likewise, as I keep saying, if the idea sounds so wild, how come David Walton was making plans to do it years ago?!

Other points here? well TVOC ought to be worried about the hangarage costs – it was their ineptitude which caused the charges to be made in the first place!

The idea that TVOC should now turn their attention to finding a suitable retirement scheme for 558 is just absurd! They were formed to get the aircraft flying, not to stick it in a museum like so many others. Naturally, you could argue forever about where the aircraft could be preserved but frankly, that’s neither here nor there. We’ve already got plenty of non-flying Vulcans. The whole point of this exercise was/is to keep one flying and arguments about where to stick another static (or taxying) aircraft is another matter entirely which probably doesn’t interest most people.

Anyway, as I’ve said, all the points you seek answers to have been answered on the Pprune thread many times. Likewise, as I also keep saying, if my view is so bizarre, then I have to say I’m still waiting for so much as one alternative proposal to try and keep the aircraft in the air. Not one has emerged, so perhaps it’s slightly comical to dismiss one practical idea (two in fact, if you include the HLF option) when there clearly isn’t any alternative on the table?

All well and good but nobody seems to be taking a broader view here. As I’ve said before, it’s oh-so easy to dismiss the USA idea and say “who would fund it” but that’s missing the point, isn’t it? The fundamental point is this – the money has nearly run-out here in the UK. If some more is found then great, hopefully 558 will soldier on for a while. But if not, then what point is there in throwing-up every possible argument (most of which don’t bear any scrutiny in any case) against taking the aircraft out of the UK?

If the aircraft is grounded here then why criticise any plan to at least try and look beyond the UK? I just don’t get this attitude at all. There’s no point in settling for a “taxy condition” machine – we’ve already got two! So are all the anti-US people happy for the whole project to result in just another static museum exhibit, like all the others? Why? What’s the point?

Surely, it’s got to be worth a try when there is absolutely no other option? There is only one other option and that’s HLF, but TVOC evidently don’t have any appetite for a fight over this matter, so what is the alternative to simply getting the aircraft out of the UK while it’s still possible? There isn’t one!

Bruce, we’ve been down this path before – that’s your view and I disgree entirely, as do others. The US route is viable. Admittedly, not guaranteed to deliver succes, but when there are no other options available, it’s better than nothing. To dismiss it as unworkable or “Pleming hype” is just unfair. Graham, the task of getting the aircraft to the US wouldn’t be that difficult -the Vulcan was built for that kind of job! It doesn’t require any further “permission” from the CAA as it is already restored to flying condition (or as good as, following it’s recent grounding). It’s really quite simple – once the aircraft is prepared to fly again, it could obviously fly anywhere, even if only in VMC or at relatively low altitudes.

The notion that 558 would be delivered to Duxford was – it seems – TVOC’s and not Duxford’s. Seems that Duxford have no interest in the aircraft and why would they when they already have a Vulcan. They’re unlikely to find hangar space for another, so even if it did go there, it would be left to rot. Where else would it go? There are no other obvious locations and certainly nowhere with room to hangar it, so to leave it here would be complete folly. What possible benefit is there in spending so much money on one Vulcan to allow it to join all the others, stuck out in the elements?

HLF don’t really come into this matter as it’s clear that they don’t really care what TVOC do with the aircraft, so if they used whatever money is left to ferry it out of the UK, they’re clearly not going to be involved. It’s easy to say that there’s hardly any more money in the States and that most Americans don’t even know what a Vulcan is but so what? It’s a chance which should be taken if all else fails. No matter what, America is a big country full of potential opportunities. The point is, once 558 gets grounded here, we’ll never know what might have been possible unless the aircraft is first removed before it’s too late.

I fear that far too much of this anti-US sentiment is driven by selfishness – if I can’t see 558 fly here than I don’t want it to fly anywhere else. That’s just crazy. In any case, who is to say that it might not be able to come back one day when the financial situation has improved? A long shot I agree but as I’ve said, unless it gets out of the UK in the first place, we’ll never know.

I agree that Pleming does like to give the impression that he never listens to anybody, but then that’s probably because he doesn’t listen to anybody! I find it slightly offensive that his wife is now supposedly hinting that the criticism he’s getting is contributing to his ill health – what a cheek! If it is affecting him then perhaps he should have left? I’m afraid I share SC034’s sentiments – he seems to be giving the impression that he’s merely milking the project for all its worth and then he’ll walk away. If that wasn’t the case, then why does he never seem to back any major PR initiatives and continually goes-back to the same old “send us your pocket money” pleas? It just reinforces the notion that he simply wants people to keep sending money in for as long as possible, but never with any ambition to find bigger sums which would do more than pay for the sandwiches (or is it “full Englishes”?!).

As for that line about smells drifting down corridors, I’d be inclined to take it (along with most of the article) with a pinch of salt. It sounds like Dan’s trying his hand (rather clumsily) at being a journalist, that’s all! There’s been a great deal of excitement over the fact that Pleming has actually spoken, but when you read what he says, he hasn’t said an awful lot and we’re still as much in the dark as we were before. It’s clear that TVOC are never going to give a full explanation as to precisely how much money they’ve received, and precisely where every penny has been spent. Consequently there’s little that anyone can do other than wait and hope that they succeed. Failing that, one can only hope that they clear-off and others come along to pick-up the pieces. They clearly don’t have any regard for people’s views and ideas, so we’re pretty-much forced to leave them to get on with it – for good or bad.