over GOhhhhh SOC g limits are different at subsonic and supersonic, everybody knows that!!!!! also how an sooooooo “fragile” plane could reach 12g without fatal damage!!!!
about ammrams i only will say
At lack of arguments, you start with that “lack” of AMRAAMS, so you compare an 90s missile with an 60s plane………buahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Few (if not no one) exported foxbat have truly medium-range missiles sistem, there are IR head seeker that only work good in dogfigths…..,so yes in the 82 war confict all the syrian planes must avoid that “sparrow wall” to survive (but thats another topic)
Arthur…..everybody knows about that incident, both planes go in an “face to face” the foxbats fired r40 before the f15 fired against them sidewinders, then come all the usaf shooting sparrows, i never said that 2 mach fight, i dont like smoke im a very clean guy…. about the phantom 12 gs it was an “peak “g not an sustaine g (in an control lost), how an “fragile” plain dont reach letal damage????? i know why…..
over Gby SOC
“According to Belyakov, the MiG-25 is stressed for 4.5 Gs, the MiG-31 for 5. Period. That is the structural limit of the airframe. Have there been instances where the MiG-25 has seen combat and survived against the USAF? Yes there have, but when you can floor it and shoot out of the area like a bat out of hell your survivabilit…..”
Ohhhhh comon…..again 5g at supersonic… look the point here is if i would NEVER said that “SUPERSONIC 5G” most people here still been believe in that blinded faith of the “unmanouveribly aircraft”, what do you think,that the plane have equal subsonic-supersonig g limits???????????????:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
“the pilot blacked out, and he was able to recover just in time to find himself right behind the drone and obliterate it with a pair of R-40s. The aircraft? A total loss”
what???????…the pilot ejected???? at what speed was (definitivieli not low subsonic), hell 12g is an destructive overload for an eagle!!!!…recover a plane at 12g!!!! 😮
again…..mig25 outurned f15c in dogfight, but you must compare the foxbat with the f15A, even against an eagle C the foxbat is an respected foe…..
At lack of arguments, you start with that “lack” of AMRAAMS, so you compare an 90s missile with an 70s plane………buahhhh :rolleyes:
Look there is no doubt that the f15C-f16 are better at low alltitude -sea level, (maybe the foxbat is a pair with the f15A) but at medium-high alltitude the foxbat is equal or better….
over GAs for out-turning an F-15C in a dogfight, when did this occur?
Psssst…discover it by yourself…….
And being stressed for 5gs at supersonic speed doesn’t mean that the aircraft automatically is able to perform 9g maneuvers and fly rings around an F-16 in a dogfight
The performance off an plane is relative also at the fly alltitude, i think that at low altitude the f15-16 have the advantage, but at medium-high (over 15000fts) the mig is better (maybe )
the aircraft automatically is able to perform 9g maneuvers
Yes youre rigth there are also aerodynamics limits, but that 5g supersonic discard that ” the price for a relative lightness, was less g-strength“…(i said that the foxbat subsonic g limit maybe is 8gs)
over Gexcuse me, but at such ignorance, i must insist
*Well SOC and Sean…. about the mig21 it use deltas because is an simpler-cheap design, but is not an huge (“pure” like some says) delta, is an tailed-delta (agility), the foxbat also is tailed-wing (agility) unlike the sr-71 (an exceptional plane), the blackbird is an truly super-fast brick-winged aircraft without important control surfaces (speed)
* the structural design of the plane….but not all depends of the strength-to-weigh materials. (an detail, rivet unions are much weaker that an good welding)
*5g at supersonic!!!, you need an huge force and a very strong airframe, its like putting an plane in a trash compactor!!! (some people think that an hard airframe stress means pilot unconscienses..)
*mig25 outurned f15c in dogfight…(then you will say that is good only for an hit and run tactis……,what kind of pilot stays in a fight when all the USAF comes!!!!!)
*when the janes people says 5g all think that the plane is an winged brick, but is 5g at HIGH SUPERSONIC!!!!
*etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc………
Maybe it will be my last post in this thread, but well……..i will post all i can do against that stupids miths….
over GModified…
Well SOC and Sean…. about the mig21 it use deltas because is an simpler-cheap design, but is not an huge (“pure” like some says) delta, is an tailed-delta (agility), the foxbat also is tailed-wing (agility) unlike the sr-71 (an exceptional plane), the blackbird is an truly super-fast brick-winged aircraft without important control surfaces (speed)….
“Designed as high-speed intercepter, the price for a relative lightness, was less g-strength”
5gs at supersonic!!!! and with that shape!!!!!! is an HUGE airframe stress, sadly i dont have the structural design of the plane….but not all depends of the strength-to-weigh materials… :rolleyes:
“The ultimate irony is that a lot of the titanium used to make the A-12, the MiG-25’s target, came from the USSR after being purchased by CIA front companies”
An arrogant cold war joke….. 😮
The myth about MiG-25 will never die?!
Yes will never die, because all that brain wash of the politics and the media…
JUST ANALIZE, DONT BELEVIE
over GWell SOC about the mig21 it use deltas because is an simpler-cheap design, but is not an huge (“pure” like some says) delta, is an tailed-delta (agility), the foxbat also is tailed-wing (agility) unlike the sr-71 (an exceptional plane), the blackbird is an truly super-fast brick-winged aircraft without important control surfaces (speed)….
over GPost by SOC,Sens an the others (a lot, i think) that still beleave in that miss-interpretations…. :rolleyes:
“From OKB MiG and nothing to read about high supersonic speed!
(Look-down/shot-down capability with endurance against low-level intruders)
MiG-25 with full internal fuel 2,*g. With half fuel 5 g.
Full burner interception radius is a mere 160 nm. Collision course against high and fast target. Not designed for manoeuvre combat.
Former SU ac were designed for specific missions and not multi-role”
“Yes, Soviet aircraft used to be highly specialized to operate in a strict system that made sense on paper, at least. Made a lot of sense given their ideology at the time though, coupled with their penchant for overbearing security.”
Wawawawawawathhhhhh!!!!!!! 🙂 :confused: that full afterburner range is much better that almost all figthers in that days (maybe the f14 is in second position) that supersonic g limit still is an close match with the ATF requierements !!!!!!
Not designed for manoeuvre combat 😀 , look the design!!! i explained that in another post, for an interceptor the russians would put an delta, but why they put that tailed delta-v wing??? :rolleyes: also remember the gulf war!!!!, i know, then you will say that is good only for an hit and run tactis, i remember hear that from some friends when the foxbats outturned eagles in a dogfigth, but for the helll!!!! 🙂 what kind of pilot stays in a fight when all the USAF comes!!!!!! :rolleyes:, also that myth of the bad speed at low alttitude was discarded, the point here is that the machine does 5g at supersonic, but at subsonic theres not doubth that the g limit is MUCH HIGHER!!!!!!!!!! (maybe 8g, at high altittude is an devil)
Yes the plan was designed as an defend sistem against the Valkery and the A-12, but it doent mean that it dont have agility!!!!
over GAn titanium interceptor……i think that the better interceptor design was tha A-12, an upgrated mig25 is basically an 31 (like SOC says) the interceptor age had gone, but right now the foxbat could work very good in ecm warfare and “selective kills” also like an anti-awaks like said fft…an question there are compositives that can work at high supersonic temperatures????
over GThe point here is that most people when talks about the foxbat dont look the design, when the janes people says 5g all think that the plane is an winged brick, but is 5g at HIGH SUPERSONIC!!!!! the f15 only perform 2-3gs!!!, if the russians would make an brick they could take an huge delta or very small wings, but that design is for all alttitude agility!!! ahh also the ultimate g is 11gs……
over G“6-7gs maximum at subsonic, I dont think that its more than that, I would not even be surprised if it was 5gs still”
MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,MYTHS,
how the perform so dangerously in the gulf war?????
over GA question, everybody knows the g limit of the foxbat at high mach (5g), but at subsonic speed??????
over GA question, everybody knows the g limit of the foxbat at high mach (5g), but at subsonic speed??????
over GAdrian says;
“The only thing it really threatens is the gun tracking! “
Its an interesting and debatible idea but for me such sistem is heavy and unaccurately, thats because the gun have an high speed airflow behind that turn in vortex too close , to reach more presition you need an more powerful -and heavyer- gun even with that theres not guarantee
“Now, if you first detect the enemy on your tail several miles back and he has gottened a radar lock-on and the rear facing missile is all set up to fire. If you have been warned by GCI, why not turn around and face the enemy? If for some reason it is easier to fire to the rear, I would think this would be the time to do it.”
Sure….you fly an Jaguar and the enemy is an Flanker…, this world was not made for the braves :rolleyes: ……..theoricaly an rearwarded launch missile have more range (leveled) that an forward-fired, because dont need rocked to reach V=0 (but it loose some heigth), and the enemy is getting closer, the problems are the turn (TVC or rotative pylons) and the guidance (i dont know 😀 )
over GAlways the russians with their unexistent pakfa!!!!, i think that they will wait until the service confirmation of the f22 (if it get an strong confirmation), but im impressed by their engineers,finally they put an AL41 into falnkers!!! my supossition of an “stealth 5th generation flanker” maybe is getting real??????
over GSOC, interesting post,
Maybe the better launch sequencie in such missile is first the use of the aerodynamical controls -without rocket- to reach speeds close to 0 then turn using the TVC and finally go direct to the target, so that problem of reach Vm=0 is not so big, looking the SOC post -the right upper diagram- i guess that the russians work in that way, but looking the pictures i think that is only an back-positioned r73 launch
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