over GThen everybody should be making it in huge quantities right, and Russia is wasting their time with the PAK FA?
Well you know…the high bypass engine fashion didnt survive very long…not because is something that is introduced by a leading airforce means it will be the rule, Russians tried with the plasma stuff, but seriously that thing was so complicated that they gave up and went on a limited and more practical answer (shaping and RAM)
And nobody is making anything on huge quantities , there is not market, i mean…not Soviet Union
over GAbout the export 35’s..dont get why all that mess with the “downgraded” 35’s…we are not talking that they are selling it to Africa, Syria, China or even India, the aircraft share the same airframe, about RAM is not the “ohh my God..impossible to match” thing, since RAM materials and techniques are very well known, and the level of the software and electronics on Europe can match very well the US counter part, seriously you guys are uber-overating the nowdays “stealth” or “antistealth” tech “secrets”, shaping and very well known materials, big deal, i would say that if we are talking about something that is still even under study on the CERN or nuclear reactors like the plasma behaviour -which actually…really needs supercomputers to study it-, but we are talking about a very well known and conventional technology here.
over GThere are many factors when you analyse the german 29’s performance, for example the early version of the 29’s radar was not very bright, but was good enough, the bad fame of the german 29’s radar came because the lack of spare parts…especially in the electronic field saying the german 29’s were on full capacity is actually a nonsense.
Just like the JOUST thingy, which is a one sided biased “simulation” without any full cooperation of all the design houses
I respect the EF design and tech, but is grossly overrated with “stealthy” features that does not exist, or “supermaneouverability” that does not exist , or “supersonic agility” that i bet is pretty the same of the average 4th gen figther, and a rising and rising supercruiser capacity that just make dream thir fans…so at which speed it can SC now?… M1.5?…remind me another nice example…
The marketing magic
But Typhoon hasn’t been eliminated in India.
Well, neither the f-16…there is still time to come, and im sure the first files and documents have not been delivered yet, neither the final product from the diferent houses
over GKKM, what you need is a material to be radar transparent, RAM and polarizating…that is asking too much mate..i think is impossible, and im sure the radome material on the 22 is quite conventional
The antenna on the 35 is tilted back more because the AESA intrinsic problems, than because stealthy reasons
over GBut with pin-diodes can you switch the polarisation and frequency or make it untransparent.;)
That solution would be interesting, a switching polarizating radome, but with that you would be reflecting the energy at the raptors radar frequency, making the radome itself an lightbulb
So using the apg77 frequencies, you can see or the radar itself (due the transaprent radome), or the radome itself (due the unstransparent radome…the polarization could also bring othere frec’s to be reflective), so you are in the same -or worse- situation
over GFrequency selective surface.
Basically this is what i was figuring about ( if you read the second paragraph), but then , using the right frequency, it can pass the radome, and i thin k is the same apg-77 frequency
over GHe believes in the plasma stealth myth. I think that tells you everything you need to know. 😉
That was not a myth…not like many aviation tales that becomes “facts” only because a lot of parrots reapeat the same crap..
The plasma tech was studied by the russians, if was or not successful, is another story…but i would’nt be surprised if the russians use it on some partial aplications, that tech works specially well against searching radars, by refraction effect over low frequency waves,there are some cases of tu-160’s baffling searching radars, and i have my doubts about a blackjack operating at low/sea level, i don’t think the russian air force use the 160’s on these kind of missions.
over G8 years of the JSF project,mature enough, im sure if the 35 would have reached a lucky hit on SC mode, sure would be a party and a celebration from it cheerleaders, and of course everybody would be saying that is an operative feature…
The overweight on the f-35/22 is not due it stealthy features (neither because the bomb bay), something went wrong on the design, when was added too many composites on the project.
over GWhat was better than the F-14 and F-15 during the 70’s and 80’s and even 90’s? As a matter of fact didn’t the F-15 have the best kill to loss ratio in the History of Fighter Aircraft………….Sorry, I don’t thing your arguement holds much water! (if any)
I wouldnt trust so blindly in these incredible kill rates…was (and still is) claimed that the f-86 kill ratio on the korean war was 11-14/1, while more serious analysis show 4-3/1.
That mean the f-86 was a better plane than the mig-15?, i dont think so,i seriously dont see any great advantage for the 86 as a fighter, the transonic stability for a plane with a speed limit of 1000 km/h or the dive advantage are marginal advantages, while the performance at height, better climb and the better g-limit are advantages more oriented for a fighter.
Hell, from reading all that, I’m surprised we even still have planes flying, since they’re obviously so flawed, they should be no better than glorified jet cars.
With years and years of nic marketing over the ATF program, you sure will be surprised..
over GThe F-22 itself is not as USAF needs to retain the edge it has once enjoyed through the teen series fighters.
In some aspects the teen fighters phylosophy was a gross mistake, the F-22 came mainly to fix these missconceptions, like “air superiority” below 5 kms…nice joke, that was the result of the Vietnam trauma, the Raptor did put an end to that trauma.
Anyway the Raptor was badly needed for the USAF, the problem is that is very unpractical, to retain supercruiser, X band LO, with only 6 missiles, for such costly aircraft…truly is not worth the efford, i think the ATF program was bad mannaged, the original Raptor was not the final product, and the Black Widow was just an old design mauled badly to meet the ATF stealthy requirements.
I am old enough to remember most of these arguement were used against both the F-14A and F-15A
Neither the tomcat or the eagle-A were great products, the eagle was relative short ranged, and had not the structure to match the incoming worlds 4th generation figthers, it aerodynamics also were dated, and against high altitude interceptors the eagle had/has many troubles.
The tomcat is even worse, counting with it “magic” phoenix , which was a nice piece of crap.
The raptor is a need for the USAF, no doubt, but the product would have been much better, for me the raptor program is pretty same as the F-4 phantom -which has a lot of “lovers”-, overcomplicated, overpriced, sharing the same development delay, an convervative ariframe -but bigger-, and a oportunity lost, again, the raptor is a need, but definitively is not a successful project , like the f-15/16 -despite all their problems-.
over GThe engine output of the german 29’s was reduced due the use of different fuel for them,
Even in a MiG-15 and F-86 you can pull >9 Gs at every height
You are talking over G’s, the 15’s g limit was 8gs, while the 86 was 7gs, and the 15 had better performance at height, these aren’t news..so you really think an f-86 can pull on controlled flight 10 gs at 10km….uh?
At height you do loose the lift to do so, when the G-forces do slow you down at an alarming rate
that is relative with the design, yes in every God-damn maneouvre you lose heigh/speed, the trick is to lose it at slower rate, the height g-limit is a measure of the lift/engine output generated , not a structural measure, that is an energy measure
How well i knew you would start with your crying Sens…mate i don’t have the floggerMLD patiente/time…so believe what you want…
over GAre you sure guys you aren’t feeding another aviation tale?, i would be a bit more cautious with these claims, the 35 is still under development, and there is not still hard data abut it flight performance
About the last post, well would be interesting navalised EF’s, but is that possible? maybe with a new wing design, any project arround?, this was studied before?
over GI bet the pakfa will have only one god damn weapon bay, the f-22 aim-9 bays is one of the worst design decitions in that project, you consume, space, materials and weight just for these 2 stupid small missiles…
over GManeuverability at low level is still very important, but most important is how you can sustain your maneouverability envelopment “curve”, for example, the mig-29 can do 9gs up to 5kms of height, while the f-16 top is 3kms
Actually is more important the agility capacity at height than at speed, since structural limitations all planes with a decent airframe strenght have more /less the same g envelopment at supersonic speed , you see, the f-22/typhoon can pull 5-6 gs at M1.5..is not far different from othere planes, only ppl that dont understand that get surprised by that “phenomenal” performance.
Other nice tale is the “transonic tactics”, in which ppl believe that the real close combat is above than M0.8, well, you guys should check how greately the drag is increased at such enviorements, this tale born with some f-16 tactics against undergraded power output german mig-29’s….what the USAF did, is to have the advantage at that situation, but that doesn’t mean it was a standar tactic against the 29 or any other plane…the performance difference between the falcon and a normal fulcrum on the sub/transonic environment is just miserable 0.05M…., that was the reason when they tried standar tactics they failed , so then they used the problems of the german migs, the real fight will be a the highter speed before falling on transonic (M0.8-0.7).
Remember we are talking about fighters with missiles, is not a WW2 fight -even on that situation the dive/climb tactic gives the advantage on high level birds- ,is not like you must reduce your flight level to the interception, the guy flying better highter will win
over GI would like to know how the thermal problems affect the highly compossed percentage airframe of the 35
The heating source on the lift fan is the gearing?, is bevel/transverse gearing?…tons of heating there
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