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May 16, 2005 at 7:52 pm in reply to: Mig-31 versus F-22 #2649197

over G
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Code One isnt the USAF-Lokheed magazine????….oh-oh, a BIG trouble that i get into 😀

anyway, all guys here are free tho think that they want,im out 🙂

Regards

May 16, 2005 at 7:45 pm in reply to: Mig-31 versus F-22 #2649200

over G
Participant

the speed advantage is above M0.85, with a 0.005 advantage margin, not important and difficult to control and use

May 16, 2005 at 7:37 pm in reply to: Mig-31 versus F-22 #2649209

over G
Participant

sferrin,man, i have explained that, f18 and 17 has the same aerodynamics, the AoA high performance is reached at very low speeds, out of structural problems, but again you are free to think what you want…

May 16, 2005 at 7:26 pm in reply to: Mig-31 versus F-22 #2649216

over G
Participant

you need a huge air superiority to make a non-dogfights war, also with the minor cuantify of costly planes (and lower AAMs number in the sky), the dogfights become even more probable, adding that the BVR problems

about the speed thats relative, more speed, lower turn, the big deal is how turn without energy loses (heigh and speed), and that is the supermaneu…..ahhh SM tech, but thats other thread

May 16, 2005 at 6:56 pm in reply to: Mig-31 versus F-22 #2649241

over G
Participant

well ,BVR air launched missiles arent very precise right now, its obvius that wont be exactly the same dogfights tactis, but the close combat will stay (but that with true combat fighter stealth tech).

i guess that you are thinking about stealth-not stealth fight, im thinking stealth-stealth combat

May 16, 2005 at 6:35 pm in reply to: Mig-31 versus F-22 #2649259

over G
Participant

about the “dogfights end”, well it sound like the big vietnam mistake, remember, stealth tech and ECM advances (both combined) could turn a BVR combat into dogfight, but i know that some members will say “nooo over g, you are crazy thats impossible”, ahhhh, what can i do :rolleyes:

May 16, 2005 at 6:24 pm in reply to: Mig-31 versus F-22 #2649276

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Participant

Mpjay, thats the point man, F404 or F404 predecessor, f17 or f18, all are nearly the same (aerodynamics and engine), obviously there are diferences ( like structural problems in the 18), but at the ends day are the same, the point is that the 404 (or j101) is the cause of that performance in both planes -f18/f17- (limited SC), the original F100 bypass was 0.7

May 16, 2005 at 4:22 pm in reply to: Mig-31 versus F-22 #2649364

over G
Participant

well, SOC, look man you have your opinion, i have the mine, we can live in peace with that

May 16, 2005 at 3:56 pm in reply to: Mig-31 versus F-22 #2649436

over G
Participant

well, whatever SOC, im just telling what i know, im not biased, i just know some concepts, and i have read very nice tales in comercial books

May 16, 2005 at 3:47 pm in reply to: Mig-31 versus F-22 #2649442

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Participant

an correction, with “aerodtnamics” i mean low speed aero

May 16, 2005 at 3:34 pm in reply to: Mig-31 versus F-22 #2649459

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Participant

SOC, both planes (f18-17) has the same aerodynamic concept, low speed AoA isnt very relationated with the g limit, but more with the aerodynamics, the “loser” planes always has those nice tales, the f18 weight increase isnt justificative to limit the fantastic 100º AoA

Mpjay, the limited (and overated) supercruiser f18, i by the low bypass turbofan F404

May 16, 2005 at 5:34 am in reply to: Mig-31 versus F-22 #2649831

over G
Participant

yes even the f18 has better AoA at lower speeds, but that plus 100º is exagerated

about the f16 vs f17, well i think that the f16 won, because the want it, they didnt need an mini f15 (f17), but i think that the cobra was an better plane , but i dont have much information about it

May 16, 2005 at 5:32 am in reply to: PAK FA news #2649899

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Participant

the raptor AoA have more relation with the TVC

May 16, 2005 at 5:26 am in reply to: Mig-31 versus F-22 #2649903

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Participant

[QUOTE]

Why is it so hard to believe?

because there are some similar cases, very particular in the “loser” designs, a kind of romanticism on the loser

You may be the first person, who manages to fly a F-16 without fbw. [Please try and tell us about the result from that. I delete my last sentence. Sorry.

is obvious that “out of FBW” not in the estricte sense, if you analize the f16 EM diagrams, there are two, one with conventional CAT restrigtions (the real performance), and other theoric with an sharped corner draw (theoric with “out FBW” ), only in this last diagram you will find the 26 AoA.

now, AoA is also relative with the speed, there are lower limits (energy limits -to move up the nose and lift questions), and higher limits (turbulence cahotic flow and structure), the flanker 90º AoA propieties are at lower speeds (with 4-6gs maneuvres) and we must acept that without TVCs there arent comparations

May 16, 2005 at 2:35 am in reply to: Mig-31 versus F-22 #2650161

over G
Participant

sens the 16s AoA FBW limitation is arround 22-21º, the corner “peak” in convetional mode is curve (in the EM diagram, from 7-7.5gs below 400knots at 9gs above 400420knots), the max (out fbw) is 26

What aircraft was able to perform the “Hang and look maneuver”, as it was called, flying tail first at 106 degrees of AOA with little forward or upward velocity?

dont get impressed by that, sometimes there are missinterpretations, with true AoA and flight at that relative angle, among other routinarie tests
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